[IrishElk] Sirens of Chrome

[irishelk]

I'm not sure if they should be on the second line or the third, but they certainly should not have been omitted entirely.

[GalFisk]

Were they ommitted entirely? Line: horizontal? Vertical? For musical notation? Phone lines? Airlines? Power lines? Clotheslines? Line as in row? Queue? Level? Did a first line relevantly also exist? They: objects? Animals? Humans? Symbols?

[Balin]

Lines: of text? Written? Printed?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Were they ommitted entirely? Yes. Line: horizontal? Yes. Vertical? For musical notation? Phone lines? Airlines? Power lines? Clotheslines? Line as in row? Queue? Level? No to rest.
Did a first line relevantly also exist? Yes. They: objects? Animals? This. Humans? Symbols?


Balin

Lines: of text? Yes! Written? Printed? Printed rather than handwritten, yes.

[GalFisk]

Text in a book? Paper? Story? Bible? Other religious text? Animals: reptiles? Mammals? Birds? Fish? Insects? Crustaceans? Mollusks? Animals in general?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Text in a book? Paper? Story? Bible? Other religious text? No to all,
Animals: reptiles? Mammals? Birds? Fish? Insects? This. Crustaceans? Mollusks? Animals in general? No to rest.

[Earnest]

To be sure: English writings? Distance between lines relevant? Is there a fourth line? A fifth? A sixth? An undefined number? Relevant? Are there many pages? One page? Is the second line under the first? The third under the second? The fourth under the third and so on? Relevant? Are there writings on other lines? Words?

Relevant how many insects? Two? More than 5? More than 10? All the necessary to cover the entire line? Relevant?

on the second line or the third --> can it be between the two? Assuming that the horizontal lines are on a page...can it be on one side of the page?

they = email key? (at least in Italian it is called as the "snail")

Are the horizontal lines the ones of a book? Of a copybook? Of a diary? Of a PC page (e.g. Word)? A receipt book? A book for taking notes? Of an App? Of a computer program? Of something related to the internet?

Insect: the name of the insect? An image of it? a symbol? Keyboard relevant? An emoticon? A gif? a midge on a screen? flies relevant? locust? worm? Beatles (music group or insect)? Bees? Others?

Does its omission: denote a mistake? Indicate something incomplete? Makes something else false? Paintings relevant?

WAG: is it text on a rock which is also a mineral with insect fossils above it (making its reproductions incomplete if insects were omitted)?

[irishelk]

Earnest

To be sure: English writings? Yes. Distance between lines relevant? No. Is there a fourth line? A fifth? A sixth? An undefined number? Relevant? One or two more, irr.
Are there many pages? No. One page? No. Is the second line under the first? The third under the second? The fourth under the third and so on? Correct. Relevant? Not really. Are there writings on other lines? Words? Yes, all the lines are made up of writing.

Relevant how many insects? Not exactly. Two? More than 5? More than 10? This. All the necessary to cover the entire line? No. Relevant?

on the second line or the third --> can it be between the two? No. Assuming that the horizontal lines are on a page...can it be on one side of the page? Not on a page.

they = email key? (at least in Italian it is called as the "snail") No--you mean this sign @? That's great, it does look like a snail!

Are the horizontal lines the ones of a book? Of a copybook? Of a diary? Of a PC page (e.g. Word)? A receipt book? A book for taking notes? Of an App? Of a computer program? Of something related to the internet? No to all.

Insect: the name of the insect? This is what should be on the line. An image of it? a symbol? Keyboard relevant? An emoticon? A gif? a midge on a screen? flies relevant? locust? worm? Beatles (music group or insect)? Bees? This, no to rest. Others?

Does its omission: denote a mistake? I think so. Indicate something incomplete? Yes. Makes something else false? Not exactly--"incomplete" is good. Paintings relevant? No, but close.

WAG: is it text on a rock which is also a mineral with insect fossils above it (making its reproductions incomplete if insects were omitted)? No, but good thought and very vaguely OTRT.

[Earnest]

so the name "bees" is missing right? If so are the the letters bye,e,s in this order missing? in another order? Or the word that means "bees" missing?

Are we talking about lines on a wall? On a building? on a painting? on a painting representing something written? on a signal? On something made of wood? on a rock? on the body of someone (e.g. a tattoo)? do the lines "naturally" belong to the object where they find themselves? are they artificially added? If they were not present would people hav e noticed it? Is it normal to see lines on such an object? Are the lines on something at all?

Are the other lines relevant? Do they talk about insects? Bees? Honey? Is the text written with a pencil? a pen? Ink? relevant?

incomplete --> i.e. it does not fit well? When read it does not make sense? It makes more sense if the word bees is inserted? Does the word bees rhyme with something? Are there blank spaces instead of the word "bees"? Other words? Another word? A synonym?

[irishelk]

Earnest

so the name "bees" is missing right? Yes. If so are the the letters bye,e,s in this order missing? in another order? Or the word that means "bees" missing?The exact word.

Are we talking about lines on a wall? Yes. On a building? On a wall in a building. on a painting? on a painting representing something written? on a signal? On something made of wood?Partly, yes. on a rock? on the body of someone (e.g. a tattoo)? No to rest.

do the lines "naturally" belong to the object where they find themselves? I would say no. are they artificially added? They were added, doyd of artificial. If they were not present would people hav e noticed it? The lines? Probably. Is it normal to see lines on such an object? Yes. Are the lines on something at all? Yes, on a wall.

Are the other lines relevant? Yes, or at least related.Do they talk about insects? Bees? Indirectly, not super relevant. Honey? Is the text written with a pencil? a pen? Ink? This. relevant? Not really, but they would not typically be handwritten.

incomplete --> i.e. it does not fit well? Depends what you mean.When read it does not make sense? No. It makes more sense if the word bees is inserted? I'd say so, but whether it makes sense is not the central issue. Does the word bees rhyme with something?No. Are there blank spaces instead of the word "bees"? Other words? Another word? A synonym? No to all.

[Earnest]

Is it normal to see lines on such an object? Yes. --> so the wall in the building has been build in order to contain line on it? Were the writings written at the time the wall was build? Lines = lines made in order for text to be written on them?

building = a school? a restaurant? a public place? an airport? an house? others?

WAG --> is it a eye examination?

[irishelk]

Earnest

Is it normal to see lines on such an object? Yes. --> so the wall in the building has been build in order to contain line on it? Not exactly, but one would expect to see these on the walls of this building. Were the writings written at the time the wall was build? No. Lines = lines made in order for text to be written on them? They are lines of text.

building = a school? a restaurant? a public place? Yes. an airport? an house? others? Yes.

WAG --> is it a eye examination? No.

[Balin]

Building - a place of business? A theatre? A cinema? A library? A bank?

[Earnest]

was the text an ancient poetry? An invented text? something that should be read? General information? part of the building design? Is perspective relevant?

Were there symbols in place of the word bees? holes? empty parts of walls? windows? lights? engravings? cracks? colored dyeing? hand traces? Indications? lines?

Can we assume that it was something like (the underlying represent the lines under the text...are there?):

wordswordswords
wordswordswords
wordswordswords

and it should have been something like:

wordswordswords
wordswordsbeeswords
wordswordswordsbees?

Were the text words connected one to the other? Did they make a sentence? Or maybe they were just unconnected words? Can "bees" stay at the end of a line?

Is the building a museum? A public bathroom? a church? an hospital? A police station? A building connected with bees? With information/culture? University?

Relevant why the word bees and not another? For a matter of fitting? Could any other word of 4 letters with two equal letters fit? For a matter of meaning? Of context? Of symbol/paint/ink/coherence/info?

[irishelk]

Balin

Building - a place of business? A theatre? A cinema? A library? A bank? No to all, see below.


Earnest

was the text an ancient poetry? An invented text? No. something that should be read? I'd say so. General information? More like specific information. part of the building design? Is perspective relevant? No to rest.

Were there symbols in place of the word bees? holes? empty parts of walls? windows? lights? engravings? cracks? colored dyeing? hand traces? Indications? lines? There are lines of words, but I wouldn't say anything is "in place of" bees.

Can we assume that it was something like (the underlying represent the lines under the text...are there?):

wordswordswords
wordswordswords
wordswordswords

and it should have been something like:

wordswordswords
wordswordsbeeswords
wordswordswordsbees? Yes.

Were the text words connected one to the other? They're related, yes. Did they make a sentence? No...Or maybe they were just unconnected words? but they are related Can "bees" stay at the end of a line? It could be placed there, yes.

Is the building a museum? Yes! A public bathroom? a church? an hospital? A police station? A building connected with bees? Not paticularly. With information/culture? University?

Relevant why the word bees and not another? Yes. For a matter of fitting? It's the word I think should be there. Could any other word of 4 letters with two equal letters fit? No. For a matter of meaning? Yes. Of context? Yes. Of symbol/paint/ink/coherence/info? Not sure what you mean, I think no.

[Earnest]

Did the sentence relevantly describe something? Something historical? If so relevant about which historical period? Renaissance? Nehandertal men? Before? Prehistory? Cavemen? Egyptian period? Roman times? Modern times? Does it signal something? Does it describe a process? A tool? How a tool was used? A food? An habit of ancient people?
Is the museum: a biological museum? Museum of art? A museum like British museum? A botany museum? A generic museum?

Did they make a sentence? No...Or maybe they were just unconnected words? but they are related --> are they related to: nature? Honey? Colors? Historical events? History? Animals? Black and yellow? Bees? Insects? Processes? Tools? Flowers? Technology? are they related with an arrow? Did they have a related meaning? A common word that unified them? Do the lines pertain different topics? Are the words on different line connected by different connections? By different words? By different logical chains?

Are bees central part of the museum? Of the room where the wall was? Relevant the font of the writing? Maybe bees should have been written in another font? With another color? Would the adding of the word "bees" have made a meaningful sentence? It would have left the meaning unchanged?

Did bees contribute to a process? Connection bees-honey relevant? Bees-health? bees-hive? bees-pollination?
Was thee text ambiguous without the word bees? Reference to black and white stripes relevant? To honey? To animals in general? Would the text bee more informative about the importance of bees? About their existence? About their presence? About their necessity for a process? About something they made? Bees = alive bees? Died bees?
Relevant how lines were separated? Relevant the reason why second and third line and not first line? Was first line devoted to an explanation? Had no-one read the text would the puzzle still work (i.e. there would be the need of the word bees)?Had the text been on the floor?

[irishelk]

Earnest

Did the sentence relevantly describe something? Yes, but not a sentence. Something historical? DOYD, but I'd say no. If so relevant about which historical period? Renaissance? Nehandertal men? Before? Prehistory? Cavemen? Egyptian period? Roman times? Modern times? It is modern.
Does it signal something? What do you mean? Does it describe a process? In a vague way. A tool? Yesish, but more in addition. How a tool was used? Yesish, but more in addition. A food? No. An habit of ancient people? No.
Is the museum: a biological museum? Museum of art? This. A museum like British museum? A botany museum? A generic museum?

Did they make a sentence? No...Or maybe they were just unconnected words? but they are related --> are they related to: nature? Honey? Colors? Historical events? History? Animals? Black and yellow? Bees? One of the words is, but not super relevant. Insects? Processes? Sort of. Tools? Some of the words, yes. Flowers? Technology? No to rest.
are they related with an arrow? No. Did they have a related meaning? They are all talking about one thing. A common word that unified them? No. Do the lines pertain different topics? Slightly different, yes. Are the words on different line connected by different connections?Yesish. By different words? They are different words, yes. By different logical chains? Not sure what you mean.

Are bees central part of the museum? No. Of the room where the wall was? No. Relevant the font of the writing? No. Maybe bees should have been written in another font? With another color? No. Would the adding of the word "bees" have made a meaningful sentence? No, they would still not form a sentence. It would have left the meaning unchanged? The other words would still mean the same things, with bees added.

Did bees contribute to a process? YES. Connection bees-honey relevant? Bees-health? bees-hive? Yesish. bees-pollination? Not directly.

Was thee text ambiguous without the word bees? Reference to black and white stripes relevant? To honey? To animals in general? No to all.

Would the text be more informative about the importance of bees? Yesish. About their existence? Hm...I'll say yes. About their presence? In a certain context, yes. About their necessity for a process? YES. About something they made? YES. Bees = alive bees? This. Died bees?

Relevant how lines were separated? In that they contain slightly different information, yes. Relevant the reason why second and third line and not first line? Yes. Was first line devoted to an explanation? No. Had no-one read the text would the puzzle still work (i.e. there would be the need of the word bees)? Well it relies on at least one person reading it, to think that "bees" should be added, but otherwise yes. Had the text been on the floor? Yes.

[trebor]

I wish I’d have seen this puzzle earlier. I was halfway through the posts, going, “Someone’s got to ask if this is in a museum...” Wish it could’ve been me.

Do the lines indicates steps of a process? Is the exhibit talking about flowers? Almonds? Another crop? Pollination in general? Do you think they left out the part about bees to avoid having people feel badly about some negative result the process has on bees? Because the museum wants to give extra importance to another part of it? Is a sponsor/funder of the museum relevant?

[Earnest]

About their necessity for a process? YES. About something they made? YES. --> a process to which they contributo on a daily basis? Is the process a natural process? Does it involve directly: animals? Humans? Trees? Is it the process of life? Is it connected to oxygen production? Production of healthy fruit? Is the process related to art? painting relevant? to a particular form of art? Bio art? pictures of nature?the shape of something?

Is the hierarchical society of bees relevant? Is the division of the work of bees (and hence the diverse types of bees) relevant? To be sure: are we talking mainly about bees in nature? bees in a bee breeding? Relevant: queen bee? Male Drones? Female Workers? The fact that female are "more active" than men?

Is any of the following activities of bees relevant? flying outside the hive? Pollination? Making honey? sting? eat something? Being the food for an animal? Their presence signaling something relevant? Being prey and/or predators? jelly relevant? nectar relevant? Collecting Propolis? Collecting water? being undertaker of other bees?

[irishelk]

trebor

I wish I’d have seen this puzzle earlier. I was halfway through the posts, going, “Someone’s got to ask if this is in a museum...” Wish it could’ve been me. You can take partial credit. ^^

Do the lines indicates steps of a process? No. Is the exhibit talking about flowers? Almonds? Another crop? Pollination in general? No to all. Do you think they left out the part about bees to avoid having people feel badly about some negative result the process has on bees? Possible, but unlikely. Because the museum wants to give extra importance to another part of it? In a vague sense. Is a sponsor/funder of the museum relevant? No.


Earnest

About their necessity for a process? YES. About something they made? YES. --> a process to which they contributo on a daily basis? Yope. Is the process a natural process? Yes. Does it involve directly: animals? Yes. Humans? Sometimes no, in this case yesish. Trees? No. Is it the process of life? It is done by living creatures, yes. Is it connected to oxygen production? No. Production of healthy fruit? Very indirectly. Is the process related to art? In this case, yes. painting relevant? No. to a particular form of art? In this case, yes. Bio art? DOYD, but I'll say yes in this case. pictures of nature? No. the shape of something? Yes.

Is the hierarchical society of bees relevant? No. Is the division of the work of bees (and hence the diverse types of bees) relevant? No. To be sure: are we talking mainly about bees in nature? No. bees in a bee breeding? I believe so. Relevant: queen bee? Male Drones? Female Workers? The fact that female are "more active" than men? No to rest.

Is any of the following activities of bees relevant? flying outside the hive? Pollination? Making honey? sting? eat something? Being the food for an animal? Their presence signaling something relevant? Being prey and/or predators? jelly relevant? nectar relevant? Collecting Propolis? Collecting water? being undertaker of other bees? Actually, none of these are directly relevant!

[irishelk]

********************RECAP

The lines are several lines of text written on a wall inside an art museum. The word "bees" has been omitted, when I believe it should have been on either the second or third line to make the lines of text complete. The lines are not a sentence, but they do describe something and are related to one thing. They are not talking about bees specifically. Some bees contributed to a process that in this case was related to art, but that they otherwise do naturally--not pollination, communication or making honey.

[Earnest]

is microscopic art relevant?

Some bees contributed to a process that in this case was related to art --> relevant which branch of art? visual art? picture? sculpture? bricolage? drawing? architecture? writings? photography? literary arts? non-visual arts? performing arts? music? dance? hum relevant? Dance of honey bees? sting relevant? oxygen?

they otherwise do naturally --> to collect food? to defense? to attract other bees? to reproduce themselves? to escape? to see better? to survive? to die? to eat? to see? to drink? something they do accidentally? not voluntarily (e.g. they provide humus for earth when they die or food for other animals)? something involving other natural elements? tree? flower? grass? other animals? other insects? mammals? humans? Beekeeping relevant?

it should have been on either the second or third line --> is the order relevantly connected with the stages of the process? I mean...the fact that the word bees should have been on the second or third line is connected to the fact that bees intervene at some stage of the process which fits on the second or third line of the words on the wall? Relevant? Does the process relevantly divide into stages? can the process complete without bees? body parts of bees' bodies relevant? wings? stings?

[irishelk]

Earnest

is microscopic art relevant? No.

Some bees contributed to a process that in this case was related to art --> relevant which branch of art? Yes. visual art? picture? sculpture? This. bricolage? drawing? architecture? writings? photography? literary arts? non-visual arts? performing arts? music? dance? hum relevant? Dance of honey bees? sting relevant? oxygen? No to rest.

they otherwise do naturally --> to collect food? to defense? Sort of. to attract other bees? to reproduce themselves? to escape? to see better? to survive? to die? to eat? to see? to drink? something they do accidentally? not voluntarily (e.g. they provide humus for earth when they die or food for other animals)? Only in the sense that they probably do it instinctively. something involving other natural elements? tree? Often, yes, but not exclusively. flower? grass? other animals? other insects? mammals? humans? Beekeeping relevant? Not really, but it is something bees still do when kept by a beekeeper. No to rest.

it should have been on either the second or third line --> is the order relevantly connected with the stages of the process? Noish. I mean...the fact that the word bees should have been on the second or third line is connected to the fact that bees intervene at some stage of the process which fits on the second or third line of the words on the wall? Not in the way you're thinking. Relevant? Does the process relevantly divide into stages? Not relevantly. can the process complete without bees? No. body parts of bees' bodies relevant? They use their body parts in the process, but not really. wings? stings? No.

[Earnest]

relevant the material of sculpture? Wood? marble? various materials? trash? any among: gold, silver, aluminum, copper, brass, lead, and iron?

oxidation relevant? Sculpture maintenance relevant? aging of the sculpture? rust relevant? Do bees take part to the build up of sculpture directly? Sustain its structure? Sculpture of an hive?...I am figuring out something like: the shape of a sculpture is given by humans, but the "row material is given by bees"...idk how to explain it but actually something like an iron structure having a certain shape is posed on a pedestal, maybe with a smell that attracts bees during a relevant process. Bees gathering around the "iron skeleton" produce a sort of sculpture...

[trebor]

Do they do this thing to protect themselves against predators? Against weather events? Hibernation relevant? Something they do at the change of seasons?

Do the bees do something that aids in the production of sculpting material? Tools used to make the sculpture? Do they provide inspiration for sculptures? ie., they create a formation when they fly that inspired a sculptor?

Should these bees be mentioned anywhere sculptures are? Or sculptures made with the same material(s)? Or would the bees be relevant only at this one museum?

[irishelk]

Earnest

relevant the material of sculpture? Yes! Wood? marble? various materials? This--I believe there is wood, metal, and something else... trash? any among: gold, silver, aluminum, copper, brass, lead, and iron? No to rest.

oxidation relevant? Sculpture maintenance relevant? aging of the sculpture? rust relevant? Do bees take part to the build up of sculpture directly? Yes! Sustain its structure? No to rest.
Sculpture of an hive? Yesish, I think you may have it?
...I am figuring out something like: the shape of a sculpture is given by humans, Yes, but the "row material is given by bees" Yes, ...idk how to explain it but actually something like an iron structure having a certain shape is posed on a pedestal, Yes, maybe with a smell that attracts bees during a relevant process. Bees gathering around the "iron skeleton" produce a sort of sculpture...It is not the bees' bodies themselves making up the sculpture...


trebor

Do they do this thing to protect themselves against predators? Against weather events? Hibernation relevant? Something they do at the change of seasons? I believe all of these are involved.

Do the bees do something that aids in the production of sculpting material? Yes, in fact they produce the material itself! Tools used to make the sculpture? Yope. Do they provide inspiration for sculptures? ie., they create a formation when they fly that inspired a sculptor? Not like this.

Should these bees be mentioned anywhere sculptures are? No. Or sculptures made with the same material(s)? Not every one, but any that were made in this exact way. Or would the bees be relevant only at this one museum? If this is the only sculpture of this kind, which it might be.

[JenBurdoo]

Is the sculpture made of beeswax? Honeycomb?

If so, was a structure created of other material, and the bees built within/thru/around it? The way a rectangular glass-and-wood hive ends up filled with honeycomb? Was the structure afterwards removed, leaving the wax?

[trebor]

Was the sculpture a "collaboration" between a human artist and bees? (Perhaps the human took a comb and did something with it? Or made something based on it?) Was the writing the descriptive text that goes beside a piece of art in a museum, crediting the artist, etc., and the bees weren't credited?

[irishelk]

JenBurdoo

Is the sculpture made of beeswax? Honeycomb? Yes!

If so, was a structure created of other material, and the bees built within/thru/around it? Yes! The way a rectangular glass-and-wood hive ends up filled with honeycomb? Was the structure afterwards removed, leaving the wax? The rest of the structure actually remains int he finished piece, but this would work too.


trebor

Was the sculpture a "collaboration" between a human artist and bees? (Perhaps the human took a comb and did something with it? Or made something based on it?) Was the writing the descriptive text that goes beside a piece of art in a museum, crediting the artist, etc., and the bees weren't credited? You got it.


******************************SPOILER

Nice job trebor and JenBurdoo for bringing it home.

I was looking at this sculpture: https://hirshhorn.si.edu/search-results ... =hmsg_89.5 , for which the artist created a basic shape and then had bees build their hive on it, leaving the combs (it looks nicer in person).

The "lines" in question are the several lines of text on the wall next to the piece, noting the title, artist, materials etc. I noticed that, while "beeswax" was listed as a material, the bees themselves were not mentioned! I'm not sure whether they should be on the second line, as artists, or the third line, as a material, but they certainly should not have been omitted entirely.

[JenBurdoo]

Very ingenious puzzle, IrishElk. Well done!

[irishelk]

Thank you!

[Earnest]

Ohhhh I see...the lateral leak of my whole reasonment was the fact that I was assuming that the writings were random, while instead the lines had a logic. Very nice and instructive!