[IrishElk] Backwards Lake

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[IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:29 pm

Two coworkers, Derek and Nelly, had a brief and pleasant text conversation. It made Derek quite annoyed. Nelly appreciated the positive chat at the time, but was annoyed by it later. Why?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby Earnest » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:19 am

Derek = HAM? Nelly = HAF?

brief and pleasant text conversation --> at work? with phone? With PC? With letters? relevant? Did they know that they were writing to each other? (e.g. letters to Juliet inn which basically people send anonymous mails)

Had they chatted before? Is the topic of the conversation relevant? Was it about work?
About hobbies? About love?
Relevant the reason why the had a text conversation rather than a face to face conversation? Relevant their work? Did they know each other? Did they work in the same building? Or maybe for the same firm but in different places? Was there work mainly online?

Was Derek annoyed when Nelly was not and viceversa? Or irrelevant whether the other of the two was annoyed one was? Were the two annoyed for the same reason in the two different time periods? If so: for the topic of the chat? For the notifications arriving? For the fact that written words remain (and could hence been shown to someone else)? Had the conversation been face to face, would they have been annoyed? If so, in two different time periods as in the statement? In the same period? Soon after the conversation? Years later?

later = hours later? days? months? seconds? years? Did they keep on chatting? Is any notification relevant? (e.g. they used a software that classifies the pops up the profiles of people according to the previous interactions. Since the two only interacted directly to each other, each time Nelly opened the chat, Derek's face/news popped up)
Were the two still coworkers when Nelly was annoyed? Assuming they were annoyed in 2 different time slots, relevant the position of Nelly with respect to Derek (or viceversa) at work in the 2 time slots? Did one of the two have an advancement in career?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:27 pm

Earnest

Derek = HAM? Nelly = HAF? Yes.

brief and pleasant text conversation --> at work? with phone? This. With PC? With letters? relevant? Did they know that they were writing to each other? Yes.

Had they chatted before? Yes. Is the topic of the conversation relevant? Yes. Was it about work? Yes.
About hobbies? About love? No to rest.
Relevant the reason why the had a text conversation rather than a face to face conversation? Not really. Relevant their work? Yes. Did they know each other? Yes. Did they work in the same building? Yes. Or maybe for the same firm but in different places? At the time of the puzzle, they physically work together. Was there work mainly online? No.

Was Derek annoyed when Nelly was not and viceversa? Derek was annoyed throughout, Nelly only became annoyed later. Or irrelevant whether the other of the two was annoyed one was?
Were the two annoyed for the same reason in the two different time periods? Not exactly, but for related reasons. If so: for the topic of the chat? Yes. For the notifications arriving? No. For the fact that written words remain (and could hence been shown to someone else)? No. Had the conversation been face to face, would they have been annoyed? Yes. If so, in two different time periods as in the statement? Yes. In the same period? Soon after the conversation? Years later? It would largely be the same whether in person or via text.

later = hours later? days? Hours or a couple days. months? seconds? years? Did they keep on chatting? No. Is any notification relevant? No. (e.g. they used a software that classifies the pops up the profiles of people according to the previous interactions. Since the two only interacted directly to each other, each time Nelly opened the chat, Derek's face/news popped up) No, good guess!

Were the two still coworkers when Nelly was annoyed? Yes. Assuming they were annoyed in 2 different time slots, relevant the position of Nelly with respect to Derek (or viceversa) at work in the 2 time slots? Yesish. Did one of the two have an advancement in career? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby Balin » Sun May 03, 2020 3:24 pm

Is their precise job relevant?
Did they talk on mobile phones? On landlines? On their work phones?
Is either (or both) of their names relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby GalFisk » Tue May 05, 2020 11:41 am

Do they both think the conversation is pleasant? Is it in a pleasant tone? In agreement? Is there a relevant undercurrent? Any relevant ommissions or untruths? Did Nelly intend for Derek to be annoyed? Vice versa? Did the annoyance relevantly show up in any of the text? Did Nelly become annoyed because fo something that happened? Something she realized? Such as a double meaning of a word or phrase?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Tue May 19, 2020 1:04 pm

Balin

Is their precise job relevant? Yes.
Did they talk on mobile phones? Assume this, but largely irr. On landlines? On their work phones?
Is either (or both) of their names relevant? No.


GalFisk

Do they both think the conversation is pleasant? At the time, Nelly does, Derek...hard to say. Is it in a pleasant tone? Yes. In agreement? Yes. Is there a relevant undercurrent? Yesish. Any relevant ommissions or untruths? You could vaguely call it untruths. Did Nelly intend for Derek to be annoyed? No. Vice versa? YES. Did the annoyance relevantly show up in any of the text? No. Did Nelly become annoyed because fo something that happened? That the convo itself happened, yes.Something she realized? Yes. Such as a double meaning of a word or phrase? Not really.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue May 19, 2020 8:20 pm

Did the conversation interrupt something that Derek was doing? Did the texting make a relevant noise?

(For example: Derek is in a meeting and his phone keeps going off.)
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Tue May 19, 2020 10:06 pm

JenBurdoo

Did the conversation interrupt something that Derek was doing? No. Did the texting make a relevant noise? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby GalFisk » Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 am

Could Nelly have become annoyed during the conversation? Did Derek do anything besides having the conversation, in order to cause the annoyance? Such as doing something, giving the impression that he'd done something else during the convo, with resulting annoyance when she found out the discrepancy? Did she make a false assumption? Relevant why Derek wanted to annoy her? Was it revenge for something? Did he do unto her as she had previously done unto him? Are they office workers? Do they work outdoors? Is the annoyance mean-spirited? Lighthearted? Do they work with humans? Animals? Machines? Tools?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Mon May 25, 2020 11:15 pm

Are Derek and Nelly annoyed at each other? At their employer? At another coworker? At someone else relevant to their job (e.g. a customer)? At someone else entirely? At their working conditions? Did Derek think Nelly was also annoyed while the conversation was going on? Did he expect her to become annoyed during the course of the conversation? After the conversation? Did Nelly find out some relevant information after the conversation took place? Did she make the realization because a certain amount of time had passed? Or did she just make the realization because she thought about the conversation a bit harder?

You said that the conversation made Derek annoyed--so this means that Derek was not annoyed at the beginning of the conversation? Did he become annoyed because of something Nelly wrote?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Tue May 26, 2020 5:07 pm

GalFisk

Could Nelly have become annoyed during the conversation? If she realized something earlier, sure.
Did Derek do anything besides having the conversation, in order to cause the annoyance? Yes. Such as doing something, giving the impression that he'd done something else during the convo, with resulting annoyance when she found out the discrepancy? Not exactly. Did she make a false assumption? No.
Relevant why Derek wanted to annoy her? Yes, or at least it should help. Was it revenge for something? No. Did he do unto her as she had previously done unto him? No. Are they office workers? No. Do they work outdoors? Sometimes. Is the annoyance mean-spirited? Debatable. Lighthearted? Derek would say so. I'd say...unnecessarily rude. Do they work with humans? Yes. Animals? Machines? Tools? To others--likely sometimes, but not relevant to the puzzle.


hominid

Are Derek and Nelly annoyed at each other? Yes. At their employer? Nelly, yes. At another coworker? At someone else relevant to their job (e.g. a customer)? At someone else entirely? At their working conditions? No to rest.
Did Derek think Nelly was also annoyed while the conversation was going on? No. Did he expect her to become annoyed during the course of the conversation? YES. After the conversation? Possibly, but not for the reason that she did. Did Nelly find out some relevant information after the conversation took place? Yes. Did she make the realization because a certain amount of time had passed? No. Or did she just make the realization because she thought about the conversation a bit harder? She might have figured it out this way, but in fact she did learn other information.

You said that the conversation made Derek annoyed--so this means that Derek was not annoyed at the beginning of the conversation? Yes. Did he become annoyed because of something Nelly wrote? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby Balin » Tue May 26, 2020 6:00 pm

Do Derek and Nellly work in a blue-collar job? White-collar? Pink-collar?
Is Derek currently annoyed at their employer? If so, did Derek want Nelly to feel the same annoyance?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Wed May 27, 2020 12:41 am

Did Derek initiate the conversation? Did Nelly?

Is the boss HAF? HAM?

Did the boss favor Derek? Nelly? Did Derek perceive the boss as favoring Derek? Nelly? Did Nelly perceive the boss as favoring Derek? Nelly?

Did Nelly and Derek have essentially the same job? Were they paid the same? Is payment at all relevant? Did Derek and Nelly have positive feelings about each other before this happened? Negative feelings? Are Derek and Nelly at all relevantly connected to each other outside of work?

Did Nelly share some positive news about work? Did Derek? Did the text conversation occur at work? At home? Somewhere else?

The information that Nelly found out later: was it from the boss? From another coworker? From Derek? From someone else? From the Internet? On the radio? On TV? From a book? Was she at work when she found out? Was she at home? If it was from a person, did that person intend to make Nelly annoyed? Would they have expected to make Nelly annoyed? Would they have expected her to be annoyed already?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby GalFisk » Wed May 27, 2020 10:50 am

Did Derek trick her? Are the humans they work with: clients? Customers? Coworkers? Patients? Students? Prisoners? Pasengers? Individuals? Groups? Did he trick her into saying something? Assuming something? Language barries relevant? Technical terms?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Thu May 28, 2020 1:35 pm

Balin

Do Derek and Nellly work in a blue-collar job? White-collar? Pink-collar? Hard to categorize in this way, not really any of these.
Is Derek currently annoyed at their employer? No. If so, did Derek want Nelly to feel the same annoyance?


hominid

Did Derek initiate the conversation? This. Did Nelly?

Is the boss HAF? HAM? This.

Did the boss favor Derek? Nelly? Did Derek perceive the boss as favoring Derek? Nelly? Did Nelly perceive the boss as favoring Derek? Nelly? To prevent confusion, Derek is the 'employer' I answered yes to above. Their job roles are unusual, so the titles coworker, employer or boss are a little inexact.

Did Nelly and Derek have essentially the same job? No. Were they paid the same? Irr, but no. Is payment at all relevant? No. Did Derek and Nelly have positive feelings about each other before this happened? Negative feelings? Irr. Are Derek and Nelly at all relevantly connected to each other outside of work? No.

Did Nelly share some positive news about work? Not news per se, but she was positive about work. Did Derek? Ditto. Did the text conversation occur at work? At home? Somewhere else?Irr.

The information that Nelly found out later: was it from the boss? From another coworker? This. From Derek? From someone else? From the Internet? On the radio? On TV? From a book?No to rest.
Was she at work when she found out?Assume yes. Was she at home?
If it was from a person, did that person intend to make Nelly annoyed? Would they have expected to make Nelly annoyed? Would they have expected her to be annoyed already? Irr, they may or may not have anticipated her reaction.


GalFisk

Did Derek trick her? Noish, but maybe explore.
Are the humans they work with: clients? Customers? Coworkers? This, although they wouldn't typically be called that. Patients? Students? Prisoners? Pasengers? Individuals? Groups? They work with many other individuals that are in several groups.
Did he trick her into saying something? No, but explore. Assuming something? Not exactly. Language barries relevant?No. Technical terms?No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm

Is the other coworker HAM? HAF? Did the coworker know about Nelly's conversation with Derek? Did the coworker have any relevant feelings towards Derek? Nelly? Is Derek also the coworker's boss? Is the coworker also Nelly's boss?

Do they work at a large company? Small business? Organization? Some arm of the government? Religious body? School?

When Derek initiated the conversation, did he have any motive beyond exchanging pleasant words about work? Did Nelly say something that surprised Derek? Did Nelly's text reveal that Nelly was not doing her job correctly? That she was being treated unfairly compared to other people? That other people were being treated unfairly compared to her?

Did Derek at any point try to see if Nelly was doing her job correctly?

Is Derek Nelly's supervisor? Did he hire Nelly? Is he capable of firing Nelly? Did he fire Nelly at any point? Did he favor another coworker over Nelly? The coworker that gave Nelly the information? Did Nelly do something to disobey Derek in some way?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Sat May 30, 2020 12:11 pm

hominid

Is the other coworker HAM? HAF? This. Did the coworker know about Nelly's conversation with Derek? Eventually, yes. Did the coworker have any relevant feelings towards Derek? Nelly? Not super relevant to the puzzle, but you could figure out their likely feelings. Is Derek also the coworker's boss? In the same sense that he is Nelly's, yes. Is the coworker also Nelly's boss? No.

Do they work at a large company? Small business? Organization? Some arm of the government? Religious body? School? None of these apply precisely. There are companies involved, but I wouldn't call them a company.

When Derek initiated the conversation, did he have any motive beyond exchanging pleasant words about work? Yes. Did Nelly say something that surprised Derek? Yes. Did Nelly's text reveal that Nelly was not doing her job correctly? No. That she was being treated unfairly compared to other people? No. That other people were being treated unfairly compared to her? No.

Did Derek at any point try to see if Nelly was doing her job correctly? No.

Is Derek Nelly's supervisor? Not exactly. Did he hire Nelly? He probably had some say in her hiring. Is he capable of firing Nelly? Probably, depending on circumstances. Did he fire Nelly at any point? No. Did he favor another coworker over Nelly? Yope--explore. The coworker that gave Nelly the information? Yesish. Did Nelly do something to disobey Derek in some way? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Sat May 30, 2020 1:10 pm

Can we call the other coworker Stephanie? Does she likely have positive feelings toward Derek? Nelly? Negative feelings toward Derek? Nelly?

Derek's other motive in initiating the conversation: was he trying to find out some information? Communicate something to Nelly? Mislead Nelly? Hurt Nelly? Inconvenience Nelly? Did the conversation mention Stephanie?

Did Derek give something to Stephanie? Nelly? Assign a certain task to Stephanie? Nelly? Take something away from Stephanie? Nelly?

Does Derek have a relevant relationship with Stephanie outside work? Does Nelly?

Was Derek fully aware that he was texting with Nelly? Was Nelly fully aware that she was texting with Derek?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:36 pm

hominid

Can we call the other coworker Stephanie? Absolutely. Does she likely have positive feelings toward Derek? Nelly? Negative feelings toward Derek? Nelly? Positive toward Nelly, at least somewhat negative toward Derek.

Derek's other motive in initiating the conversation: was he trying to find out some information? Communicate something to Nelly? Mislead Nelly? Along these lines, but not exactly. Hurt Nelly? In part, yes. Inconvenience Nelly? No to rest. Did the conversation mention Stephanie? Yes.

Did Derek give something to Stephanie? Nelly? Assign a certain task to Stephanie? Nelly? Take something away from Stephanie? Nelly? No to all.

Does Derek have a relevant relationship with Stephanie outside work? Does Nelly? No.

Was Derek fully aware that he was texting with Nelly? Yes. Was Nelly fully aware that she was texting with Derek? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:41 am

So he was trying to start a pleasant conversation, but also hurt/mislead(ish) Nelly when he started the conversation, but he didn't get annoyed until partway through the conversation? Is it relevant why he was doing this to Nelly?

Did Nelly react in an unexpected way to Derek's text? An unwanted (by Derek) way? Did she fail to get misled/hurt by Derek?

Was Derek trying to "hurt Nelly" emotionally? Mentally? Physically? Financially? Socially?

Did the conversation include a value judgement on Stephanie? Did Derek initiate the conversation by mentioning Stephanie? Did Derek introduce Stephanie's name into the conversation later? Did Nelly introduce Stephanie's name into the conversation? Is Stephanie a new hire? Is she the only other person employed there?

Was Derek expecting Nelly to: agree with Derek? Disagree with Derek? Find Derek's text funny? Was a joke involved?

Was Derek trying to pit Stephanie and Nelly against each other?

Did Nelly get annoyed when she realized Derek's ulterior motive in texting her?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:17 am

hominid

So he was trying to start a pleasant conversation, No. but also hurt/mislead(ish) Nelly when he started the conversation, Noish. but he didn't get annoyed until partway through the conversation? Yes. Is it relevant why he was doing this to Nelly? Yes.

Did Nelly react in an unexpected way to Derek's text? Yes. An unwanted (by Derek) way? Yes. Did she fail to get misled/hurt by Derek? Correct!

Was Derek trying to "hurt Nelly" emotionally? Mainly this. Mentally? Physically? Financially? Socially? Thisish.

Did the conversation include a value judgement on Stephanie? Yes. Did Derek initiate the conversation by mentioning Stephanie? Yes. Did Derek introduce Stephanie's name into the conversation later? Irr about the exact point, but Stephanie was the focus. Did Nelly introduce Stephanie's name into the conversation? No. Is Stephanie a new hire? No. Is she the only other person employed there? No, but the only one relevant to the puzzle.

Was Derek expecting Nelly to: agree with Derek? No. Disagree with Derek? Possibly. Find Derek's text funny? No. Was a joke involved? No.

Was Derek trying to pit Stephanie and Nelly against each other? Yes!

Did Nelly get annoyed when she realized Derek's ulterior motive in texting her? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:00 pm

Did Derek start the conversation by: saying something positive about Stephanie? Something negative about Stephanie? Did he make a general statement about Stephanie? A true statement? A false statement?

Did he ask Nelly a question about Stephanie? Was it "How do you feel about Stephanie?" or something like that?

Did Derek also start a similar conversation with Stephanie, about Nelly? Did Nelly find this out, and get annoyed by that?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm

hominid

Did Derek start the conversation by: saying something positive about Stephanie? Yes. Something negative about Stephanie? No. Did he make a general statement about Stephanie? Fairly specific. A true statement? A false statement? Doesn't really matter, but assume true.

Did he ask Nelly a question about Stephanie? Was it "How do you feel about Stephanie?" or something like that? This might have been involved but was not the main message.

Did Derek also start a similar conversation with Stephanie, about Nelly? Yes. Did Nelly find this out, and get annoyed by that? Yes!
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:46 pm

Did Dale tell Nelly that Stephanie was: nice? Smart? Attractive? Good-looking? Good at her job? Talented? Compassionate? Friendly? Professional? Well-dressed?
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby irishelk » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:58 pm

hominid

Did Dale tell Nelly that Stephanie was: nice? Smart? Attractive? Good-looking? Good at her job? This... Talented? ...and this are the main points, though he might have touched on all of the above. Compassionate? Friendly? Professional? Well-dressed?

I think you've got most of the main points here, but I think it's worthwhile to figure out his specific motivation to do this.
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Re: [IrishElk] Backwards Lake

Postby hominid » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:04 pm

Unions relevant? Are Nelly and Stephanie part of a union? Thinking about forming one? Are they considering banding together against Derek in some way? Is a promotion relevant?
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