[JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

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[JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:41 am

A man, preparing for a language test, has studied for only a short time, and his instructor feels he is not ready. Yet he passes easily. How?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:57 am

Relevant which language? If so, Arabic?
Is the test written? oral? Does it test the man's listening comprehension? reading comprehension? writing skills? speaking skills? grammar? vocabulary?
Does the man cheat?
Is the instructor also the one who sets the test? who administers the test? who grades the test?
Relevant why the man takes the test? If so, for his job?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby markobr » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:01 am

Is he being tested in his native language? A language very similar to his native language? A language he has learned before? Is the instructor unaware of his student's previous knowlege.?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 am

Is he ready? Is the pass an accurate reflection of his skill in the language? Is the test flawed?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Relevant which language? No. If so, Arabic? But yes.
Is the test written? oral? This. Does it test the man's listening comprehension? reading comprehension? writing skills? speaking skills? grammar? vocabulary? Everything, though reading and writing are probably least important.
Does the man cheat? Yope.
Is the instructor also the one who sets the test? who administers the test? who grades the test? No to all.
Relevant why the man takes the test? No. If so, for his job? But yes.

Is he being tested in his native language? A language very similar to his native language? A language he has learned before? Is the instructor unaware of his student's previous knowlege.? No to all.

Is he ready? No. Is the pass an accurate reflection of his skill in the language? No. Is the test flawed? No, but...
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:06 pm

Does the man expect to pass the test? fail the test?
Does the man exploit a loophole?
Does the man take the test himself? Or does he send someone else to take it for him?

Relevant how the test is administered? If so, face-to-face with an examiner? in a group setting with an examiner? computer-based?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:18 pm

Does the man expect to pass the test? fail the test? Could go either way. He's taking a justifiable risk.
Does the man exploit a loophole? Not precisely, but explore.
Does the man take the test himself? This. Or does he send someone else to take it for him?

Relevant how the test is administered? Yes. If so, face-to-face with an examiner? This. in a group setting with an examiner? computer-based? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:23 pm

Did he cheat? Did the examiner make a mistake? Was he able to access the answers somehow? Were there definite answers to the test questions? Did the man make other preparations than studying the subject of the test for a short time? Such as studying the test setup? Seeing how others took the test?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:31 pm

Did he cheat? No, but it's arguable he was unethical. Did the examiner make a mistake? Arguably. Was he able to access the answers somehow? Were there definite answers to the test questions? No to both. Did the man make other preparations than studying the subject of the test for a short time? Yes. Such as studying the test setup? Seeing how others took the test? He may have observed or been aware of the testing procedure. But this is not the relevant action.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:17 pm

Technology relevant at all? Google Translate?

Did the man get any outside help?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:49 pm

Technology relevant at all? Google Translate?

Did the man get any outside help?

No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:41 pm

Did the man's preparations involve finding out the test questions? finding out something about the examiner? finding out the rubric used to grade the test? preparing materials to take with him? altering the exam room in any way?

Does the man bring anything with him to the exam that's not allowed?
Does he blackmail the examiner? bribe them?

Relevant where the test takes place?

Would the same tactic work for a test that's not a language test?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:44 pm

Did the man's preparations involve finding out the test questions? finding out something about the examiner? finding out the rubric used to grade the test? preparing materials to take with him? This (for SVV of "materials"). altering the exam room in any way? No to the rest.

Does the man bring anything with him to the exam that's not allowed?
Does he blackmail the examiner? bribe them? No to all.

Relevant where the test takes place? No.

Would the same tactic work for a test that's not a language test? Yes, but not many. Depends on the topic, circumstances, and luck.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:17 am

Did he bring anything with him that was not forbidden, but still unethical? During the test, did he read any writing, apart from what the test giver presented? Did he relevantly screw with the timing of the test? Such as retaking it? Extending it? Did he screw with the grading? Different parts of the test counting for different fractions of the final result relevant? Were the grading criteria flawed?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:27 pm

Did he bring anything with him that was not forbidden, but still unethical? For SVV of "bring" and "unethical." During the test, did he read any writing, apart from what the test giver presented? Did he relevantly screw with the timing of the test? Such as retaking it? Extending it? Did he screw with the grading? Different parts of the test counting for different fractions of the final result relevant? Were the grading criteria flawed? For SVV of criteria. No to the rest.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby hominid » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:19 pm

Were there words in the language written somewhere? Did he know the relevant information from somewhere else in his life?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:45 pm

Clothing relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:10 pm

Were there words in the language written somewhere? No. Did he know the relevant information from somewhere else in his life? No, but...

Clothing relevant? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Balin » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:14 pm

Did he prepare answers to give on the test and just memorize those?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:39 pm

Do his answers actually relate to the questions in a meaningful way? Related WAG: Does the content of the anwers count so little towards to grade that one can pass by uttering random, but grammatically correct sentences?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Did he prepare answers to give on the test and just memorize those? For one relevant question, yes.

Do his answers actually relate to the questions in a meaningful way? Yes. Related WAG: Does the content of the answers count so little towards to grade that one can pass by uttering random, but grammatically correct sentences? He didn't answer randomly, but the answers did ultimately count less towards the grade than something else.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:32 pm

Did he hope the examiner would pick up on something in his answer and ask all subsequent questions about that?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:37 pm

Did he hope the examiner would pick up on something in his answer and ask all subsequent questions about that? Possibly. He did focus on a single question and answer for the purpose of distracting the examiner.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:57 pm

Relevant what the question was about? Was it about the man? If so, his family? work? education? hobbies? interests? Was it about politics? history? culture? society? media? sports? entertainment? about the test itself?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:15 pm

Relevant what the question was about? Yes. Was it about the man? Yes. If so, his family? work? education? hobbies? interests? Was it about politics? history? culture? society? media? sports? entertainment? about the test itself? This.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:44 am

Did he distract the examiner? Shock him/her? Flatter? Flirt? Confuse? Annoy? Cause an emotional response? Pretend to have a problem? Give an impression of deserving leniency?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:22 am

Did he distract the examiner? Most likely. Shock him/her? Flatter? Flirt? Confuse? Annoy? Cause an emotional response? Pretend to have a problem? Give an impression of deserving leniency? Possibly, depending on the specifics of his answer, which is not described. No to the rest.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:56 am

Did the examiner end up doing most of the talking?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:09 pm

Did the examiner end up doing most of the talking? Irr.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Doriana » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:30 pm

Was the question "Are you ready for the test?"? "Are you nervous?"? "Why are you taking the test?"? "Have you taken this test before?"? "Are you prepared for the test?"? "Do you have any questions about the test?"?

Was the question asked in the target language? Did the man answer in the target language?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:12 pm

Was the question "Are you ready for the test?"? "Are you nervous?"? "Why are you taking the test?"? "Have you taken this test before?"? "Are you prepared for the test?"? "Do you have any questions about the test?"? None of these, though questions one and three are reminiscent of the actual question asked.

Was the question asked in the target language? Did the man answer in the target language? Yes to both.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Enjay » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:17 pm

Did the man know he was going to be asked this question before he started the test? Was the question officially part of the test? More of a warm up before the real test? Was the answer the man prepared one that could be applied to many different questions?

Was the answer he prepared intended to get him a lot of marks? To show lots of language knowledge? For example, if he knows that to get high marks you have to demonstrate use of multiple tenses, he prepared an answer that would use different tenses?

Did the man answer the question truthfully?

Was the relevant question the first one asked? Were more questions asked later? Did the man's answer cause fewer questions to be asked? Easier questions? Questions he was more prepared for? Did his answer cause other questions to have less impact on his score?

Was this a pass/fail exam? Graded? Relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:35 pm

Did the man know he was going to be asked this question before he started the test? Not for certain, but he was fairly sure. Was the question officially part of the test? No. More of a warm up before the real test? Yes. Was the answer the man prepared one that could be applied to many different questions? Possibly.

Was the answer he prepared intended to get him a lot of marks? Yes. To show lots of language knowledge? Likely. For example, if he knows that to get high marks you have to demonstrate use of multiple tenses, he prepared an answer that would use different tenses? Wouldn't be surprised, but that's not the important part.

Did the man answer the question truthfully? Assume yes.

Was the relevant question the first one asked? Yes. Were more questions asked later? Irr. Did the man's answer cause fewer questions to be asked? Probably. Easier questions? Probably. Questions he was more prepared for? Probably. Did his answer cause other questions to have less impact on his score? Assume this.

Was this a pass/fail exam? Assume this. Graded? Relevant? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Hal tatakalam?

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:19 am

Would this work for someone taking a similar test for English? Does he manipulate the question somehow? Or use wordplay? Recognize a quote? Sing a song? Does he answer the question in a way that would have even been somewhat clever for a native speaker?
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