Lateral Puzzles • View topic - [CoffeeBean] Tongue-Tied [Stepped Up]

by **CoffeeBean** » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:34 pm

A life-changing event happens to people all over the world, and it has to do with numbers. The event causes the people who experience it to go to the same place. Those who go because their number is first or second cannot explain what happened to cause them to be at the place. For the rest, the number is higher, usually third or greater, and they have a less life-changing experience than the others. So what happens to all of these people, and how are numbers related to it?

by **Hobbsicle** » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:53 pm

Their number: a birthday? A different date? A number they receive at some point?

When you say “first” and “second”, do you mean numerically (e.g. 28 comes before 36)? Or according to their place on a list of some kind? Or chronological order?

Is the life changing event related to: change in marital status? Having children? Change in financial status? Change in job status? A physical change? Change in location? Spiritual change?

Are the people who can’t explain what happened too young to know?

by **CoffeeBean** » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:31 pm

Their number: a birthday? A different date? A number they receive at some point? None of these

When you say “first” and “second”, do you mean numerically (e.g. 28 comes before 36)? Yes
Or according to their place on a list of some kind? Or chronological order? Not these

Is the life changing event related to: change in marital status? Having children? Change in financial status? Change in job status? Not these A physical change? Yes Change in location? In some cases, yes Spiritual change? No

Are the people who can’t explain what happened too young to know? No

by **biograd** » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:24 pm

Does the phrase "the same place" in the puzzle statement mean literally the exact same place? or the same kind of place (for example an airport, a hospital, etc.) but locally to each of them?

When you say that some "cannot explain what happened to cause them to be at the place", do you mean that they cannot explain what caused them to experience the numerical event (but still know how they physically got to the place in response--e.g. what route they took, whether by car or by bus, etc.)? or do you mean that they literally gain consciousness and find themselves somewhere without knowing how they got there? If the latter, were they asleep while going there? in a coma? under anesthesia? otherwise knocked out?

Is the number a vital sign of some kind?

by **wunderland** » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:33 pm

Does everyone in the world have a number?
Does everyone who has a number, have a different number?
Does everyone who has a number, experience the event?

by **CoffeeBean** » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:14 pm

Does the phrase "the same place" in the puzzle statement mean literally the exact same place? No...
or the same kind of place (for example an airport, a hospital, etc.) but locally to each of them? ...it means this, and the place is actually a hospital.

When you say that some "cannot explain what happened to cause them to be at the place", do you mean that they cannot explain what caused them to experience the numerical event (but still know how they physically got to the place in response--e.g. what route they took, whether by car or by bus, etc.)? Yes
or do you mean that they literally gain consciousness and find themselves somewhere without knowing how they got there? You can say that, yes
If the latter, were they asleep while going there? in a coma? under anesthesia? otherwise knocked out? Well all of these are OTRT but none of these describe the condition

Is the number a vital sign of some kind? No

by **CoffeeBean** » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:14 pm

Does everyone in the world have a number? No
Does everyone who has a number, have a different number? No, but some do
Does everyone who has a number, experience the event? In this case yes

by **TDGperson** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:26 am

Do people know their own number? Do people who don't have a number know that they don't? Is having a number a medical condition? Does this event happen at a specific age? Does this happen to both children and adults?

Are people born with this number? Does this number change throughout a person's life? Do people keep their number after the event? Does it change after the event?

Did people in ancient times have this number? did they experience this event? Do ancient people experience a different event than modern people?

Does the event only happen when someone can access the hospital? or can it happen when someone is lost in the wilderness and has no way to access a hospital?

by **JenBurdoo** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:55 am

Is Covid-19 relevant? Any other specific disease or ailment?

Are the numbers written or marked in some way? If so, is the way they are written relevant (Roman, Arabic, text, etc)?

by **Earnest** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:05 am

So having a greater number is linked to a negative life change? The higher the number the worst? The contrary?

Numbers = a time measure (e.g. number of seconds blacked-out...after a KO maybe)? a measure? A measure of pressure? random numbers? Lottery tickets? Numbers that classify something? The gravity of an event? Are number assigned according to a criterion? To groups of people? Once people are in the hospital? Before? Are numbers a code? An order?

life-changing event --> a medical condition? Something concerning with health of people?

Those who go because their number is first or second cannot explain what happened to cause them to be at the place. --> do people know to be first and second ex ante? Or do they know it only after other people with numbers went to the hospital? Is COVID relevant? Are the numbers public?
Do people know that a life-changing event happened to them? Are accidents relevant?

WAG: is being pregnant relevant? stitches?

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:07 pm

Do people know their own number? Some do, but FA here
Do people who don't have a number know that they don't? Some do, but same FA
Is having a number a medical condition? No Does this event happen at a specific age? No - good q
Does this happen to both children and adults? Yes

Are people born with this number? No
Does this number change throughout a person's life? No, still FA
Do people keep their number after the event? In a way, yes. Explore this idea.
Does it change after the event? No

Did people in ancient times have this number? Some did, yes did they experience this event? Yes
Do ancient people experience a different event than modern people? No, this event would be the same - good q

Does the event only happen when someone can access the hospital? No or can it happen when someone is lost in the wilderness and has no way to access a hospital? Sure, it can happen in this case (but something else has to be happening as well)

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:12 pm

Is Covid-19 relevant? Any other specific disease or ailment? No to these

Are the numbers written or marked in some way? No
If so, is the way they are written relevant (Roman, Arabic, text, etc)? N/A

So having a greater number is linked to a negative life change? The higher the number the worst? The contrary?
None of these are correct

Numbers = a time measure (e.g. number of seconds blacked-out...after a KO maybe)? a measure? A measure of pressure? random numbers? Lottery tickets? Numbers that classify something? The gravity of an event? No to all
Are number assigned according to a criterion? No To groups of people? No
Once people are in the hospital? Before? Those who know the number usually know it before they arrive at the hospital Are numbers a code? No An order? In a way, yes, OTRT

life-changing event --> a medical condition? Not really Something concerning with health of people? Related to this, yes

Those who go because their number is first or second cannot explain what happened to cause them to be at the place. --> do people know to be first and second ex ante? Can you rephrase?
Or do they know it only after other people with numbers went to the hospital? Those who know the number know it before they go to the hospital
Is COVID relevant? Are the numbers public? No to these
Do people know that a life-changing event happened to them? Some of them do, yes
Are accidents relevant? Yes, very relevant

WAG: is being pregnant relevant? stitches? No to these

by **TDGperson** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:49 pm

Is this life changing event a positive experience? negative experience? Do some people get affected positively and others negatively?

Does the event leave anything visible on people (that is: can I tell just by looking at someone whether or not this event happened to them?)

Can people control if/when they get this number? When the life changing experience occurs?

Does the number have any units assigned to it? or are they dimensionless quantities?

Accidents: a car crash? Does the accident cause injury/disease? Does the accident cause people to go to the hospital?

Can people have multiple numbers? Can people get rid of their own number? Can people give their number to someone else? Can people cause other people to acquire or lose their number?

Can someone experience this event multiple times in their life?

by **CoffeeBean** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:57 pm

Is this life changing event a positive experience? negative experience? This
Do some people get affected positively and others negatively? Only negatively

Does the event leave anything visible on people (that is: can I tell just by looking at someone whether or not this event happened to them?) This is possible but not typical

Can people control if/when they get this number? When the life changing experience occurs? To some degree, yes

Does the number have any units assigned to it? or are they dimensionless quantities? A unit is assigned, but explore

Accidents: a car crash? No Does the accident cause injury/disease? Injury, yes
Does the accident cause people to go to the hospital? Yes

Can people have multiple numbers? No, each person will only have one
Can people get rid of their own number? No - FA Can people give their number to someone else? No
Can people cause other people to acquire or lose their number? No

Can someone experience this event multiple times in their life? I suppose it's possible, but for some of the people involved this would not be possible

by **wunderland** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:12 pm

Does the accident cause a head injury? does it cause people to lose consciousness?
Do the numbers relate to loss of consciousness? Do only people with "first" and "second" numbers lose consciousness?

Are the numbers: all whole numbers? all positive numbers? ordinal numbers? is the "first" number literally the ordinal "first"?
Are the units: mass? length? area? volume? time? rate of something (X per second)? Are they counting something? and the "unit" is the thing that they are counting?

Do the numbers relate to the order in which people experience some event (i.e. the person with the "first" number is the first to experience that event, or the first among some group)? if so: having an accident? calling an ambulance? leaving for the hospital? arriving at the hospital? being seen by a doctor?

If someone experiences the event a second time, must they necessarily do so with the same number?

by **TDGperson** » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:13 am

Do more than 10% of people have this number? More than 50%? More than 90%?

Is the accident something that is caused by other people? Natural occurrences such as the weather? Some man-made contraption malfunctioning?

Can people cause the event to happen to themselves? to others who also have a number? Can they delay it or prevent it?

Can this event happen to people who don't have this number?

Is there a person assigning numbers to people? Do people have any control over who gets this number and who doesn't?

by **Enjay** » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:31 pm

Do the numbers represent degrees of seriousness of something? Eg first/second/third degree burns? Types, like type 1/2 diabetes?

by **CoffeeBean** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:37 pm

Does the accident cause a head injury? does it cause people to lose consciousness? Both, in some casesf
Do the numbers relate to loss of consciousness? No
Do only people with "first" and "second" numbers lose consciousness? More commonly than others, yes

Are the numbers: all whole numbers? Yes, but see below all positive numbers? Yes
ordinal numbers? Many of them are, yes is the "first" number literally the ordinal "first"? Yes
Are the units: mass? length? area? volume? time? rate of something (X per second)? Are they counting something? Yes, it is related to something being counted, and...the "unit" is the thing that they are counting? ...this too.

Do the numbers relate to the order in which people experience some event (i.e. the person with the "first" number is the first to experience that event, or the first among some group)? No if so: having an accident? calling an ambulance? leaving for the hospital? arriving at the hospital? being seen by a doctor?

If someone experiences the event a second time, must they necessarily do so with the same number? No

by **CoffeeBean** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:40 pm

Do more than 10% of people have this number? More than 50%? More than 90%? 10, 50 or 90 percent of what?

Is the accident something that is caused by other people? It can be, but usually is not
Natural occurrences such as the weather? Weather can be a factor, yes
Some man-made contraption malfunctioning? No

Can people cause the event to happen to themselves? Yes to others who also have a number? In some cases but probably not often Can they delay it or prevent it? Not really either of these

Can this event happen to people who don't have this number? FA

Is there a person assigning numbers to people? Hmmmm...yes-ish but explore
Do people have any control over who gets this number and who doesn't? Well again FA about "this number"

by **CoffeeBean** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:52 pm

Do the numbers represent degrees of seriousness of something? No - good q
Eg first/second/third degree burns? Types, like type 1/2 diabetes? No to all

by **TDGperson** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:50 am

Are there multiple people assigning numbers? Do they accidentally give someone else numbers? Do they cause the accident to happen?

Are some numbers assigned by people and other numbers given in some other way?

Are numbers attached to specific people? or are groups of people assigned a number?

by **biograd** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:52 pm

Let me clarify, because this is getting confusing:
Do people already have a number before the accident occurs? or only after the accident?
If the former, does the number influence the outcome of the accident? if the latter, does something about the accident itself determine the number (e.g. its severity, the location where it happens, how many people are involved, etc.)? or is the number chosen freely by someone after the fact?

Ok, now that those are answered, does the accident involve: a collision between objects? or between an object and a person? a fall? a serious change in temperature (e.g. hypothermia, heat stroke, or burns)? suffocation? dehydration? starvation?

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:33 pm

Are there multiple people assigning numbers? No (partial FA here)
Do they accidentally give someone else numbers? No Do they cause the accident to happen? No

Are some numbers assigned by people and other numbers given in some other way? No, the numbers are all given the same way

Are numbers attached to specific people? In this case, yes, but... or are groups of people assigned a number? ...this happens later (which is what gave me the idea for this puzzle)

Let me clarify, because this is getting confusing: There have been a few FA's but I think one just got cleared up
Do people already have a number before the accident occurs? or only after the accident? Only after
If the former, does the number influence the outcome of the accident? if the latter, does something about the accident itself determine the number Yes, it's a direct connection
(e.g. its severity, the location where it happens, This is relevant! how many people are involved, etc.)? or is the number chosen freely by someone after the fact? No, and the number isn't really "chosen"

Ok, now that those are answered, does the accident involve: a collision between objects? or between an object and a person? a fall? This a serious change in temperature (e.g. hypothermia, heat stroke, or burns)? suffocation? dehydration? starvation?

by **TDGperson** » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:02 pm

Does the person fall? Do multiple people fall at the same time? Does an object fall? Does it hit someone on the head when it falls? Does the person falling go to the hospital? Do the people getting hit on the head?

Does the number count money? cost of the treatment? Severity of the injury? Number of things damaged? (such as number of broken bones)?

by **CoffeeBean** » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:00 pm

Does the person fall? Yes Do multiple people fall at the same time? No
Does an object fall? Does it hit someone on the head when it falls? No to both
Does the person falling go to the hospital? Yes, most of the time Do the people getting hit on the head? Some of them, yes

Does the number count money? cost of the treatment? Severity of the injury? No to these
Number of things damaged? (such as number of broken bones)? No

by **TDGperson** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:51 am

Does the person fall a significant vertical distance? More than 1 meter? More than 5 meters? More than 100 meters?

Do people fall out of a building? Another man-made structure? A natural structure such as a cliff? A tree?

Does the number count a tangible object? The number of times something happens?

Is the number determined at the time of the fall? At the time of arrival to the hospital? After the treatment is over?

Do people have permanent injuries/disabilities after the hospital stay?

by **CoffeeBean** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:49 pm

Does the person fall a significant vertical distance? In some cases yes
More than 1 meter? More than 5 meters? Either of these could happen, explore
More than 100 meters? No, never this

Do people fall out of a building? No Another man-made structure? Yes, but not "out of" it
A natural structure such as a cliff? A tree? No to these

Does the number count a tangible object? Yes The number of times something happens? No

Is the number determined at the time of the fall? Yes At the time of arrival to the hospital? Sometimes this as well After the treatment is over? No, it's known before this

Do people have permanent injuries/disabilities after the hospital stay? In some cases yes

by **TDGperson** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:23 pm

Do people fall down a ladder? Down the stairs? Down a building? Out of a window? Do people fall out of something intended for climbing/going up?

Do people trip and fall?

Are bigger numbers associated with a higher distance fall? lower distance fall?

Is the tangible object that is being counted made out of metal? rubber? plastic? wool? Is it smaller than a house? microwave? water bottle? ant?

by **CoffeeBean** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:26 pm

Do people fall down a ladder? Down the stairs? THIS Down a building? Out of a window? Do people fall out of something intended for climbing/going up?

Do people trip and fall? Yes

Are bigger numbers associated with a higher distance fall? lower distance fall? This is the case sometimes, yes, but not always

Is the tangible object that is being counted made out of metal? rubber? plastic? wool? Is it smaller than a house? microwave? water bottle? ant?
It's stairs

by **gregoryuconn** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:44 pm

Is the number a floor number? A step number? The floor they fall from? Land on? Same question for steps?

by **TDGperson** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:41 am

Is the number the number of steps they fall down? The speed (steps per second) at which the person falls? The number of steps remaining in the fall? The number of steps in the staircase in total?

Is it an indoor staircase? outdoor? relevant?

Are bigger staircases more likely to cause this accident? less likely?

Does the person go up the staircase before falling? down the staircase?

Does the accident happen when going up a ramp or escalator or elevator?

by **CoffeeBean** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:54 pm

Is the number a floor number? A step number? Yes, this The floor they fall from? Land on? Same question for steps? Yes, this

Is the number the number of steps they fall down? No The speed (steps per second) at which the person falls? No
The number of steps remaining in the fall? The number of steps in the staircase in total? No to both of these

Is it an indoor staircase? outdoor? relevant? Could be either one of these

Are bigger staircases more likely to cause this accident? less likely? Both are equally as likely, but one of these leads to another related issue

Does the person go up the staircase before falling? down the staircase? Almost all cases involve the person going down

Does the accident happen when going up a ramp or escalator or elevator? In this case it's only stairs

by **biograd** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 am

So the number refers to the step they fall FROM? or the one they fall TO? Are the steps "numbered" from the bottom of the staircase? from the top?

Is their some reason (other than mere clumsiness, or a disability that affects walking on stairs) that these people fall? like descending the stairs intentionally in a way that is not what they were designed for (e.g. skateboarding down the handrail, jumping down more than one step at a time)?

by **CoffeeBean** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:27 pm

So the number refers to the step they fall FROM? or the one they fall TO? It is usually referring to the one that they fall from
Are the steps "numbered" from the bottom of the staircase? from the top? It could be either

Is their some reason (other than mere clumsiness, or a disability that affects walking on stairs) that these people fall? like descending the stairs intentionally in a way that is not what they were designed for (e.g. skateboarding down the handrail, jumping down more than one step at a time)? The reason that the people fall is not relevant

by **TDGperson** » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:33 am

Is it a sequential numbering? like falling from the first step means they get the number 1, falling from the second step means they get 2, and so on.

If someone falls but doesn't get injured enough to have to go to the hospital , do they get a number?

If animals fall down the stairs and have to go to the vet, do they get a number?

by **CoffeeBean** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:49 pm

Is it a sequential numbering? like falling from the first step means they get the number 1, falling from the second step means they get 2, and so on. Yes

If someone falls but doesn't get injured enough to have to go to the hospital , do they get a number? They will "get" a number, yes, meaning they will associate the numbered step with the fall

If animals fall down the stairs and have to go to the vet, do they get a number? Only if someone witnesses the fall

by **CoffeeBean** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:54 pm

RECAP - The life changing event that people experience is falling down stairs. When this happens and they go to the hospital, some of them describe their accident and relate it to a number that corresponds to which step they fell from (the first, second, etc). Some of the people to which this happens go to the hospital but cannot explain what happened to them or what the step number is that is connected with their accident. In most cases it is discovered that these people fell from the first or second step. Usually when the number is higher, the people who had the accident can explain what happened to them and what step number they fell from.

So...what do the people who can't explain their injury have in common?

by **Doriana** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:31 pm

Are the people who can't explain their injury preverbal children?

by **CoffeeBean** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:05 pm

Are the people who can't explain their injury preverbal children? No, this is not the commonality

by **biograd** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:36 pm

Are they people who didn't realize/didn't remember that there were any steps at all in the place they were walking, and kept walking flat as though no steps existed?

by **CoffeeBean** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:44 pm

Are they people who didn't realize/didn't remember that there were any steps at all in the place they were walking, and kept walking flat as though no steps existed? No

by **markobr** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:50 pm

Do these people suffer from some kind of amnesia or loss of consciousness?

by **TDGperson** » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:29 pm

Are they (the people who fell from the first or second step and can't explain their number) able to talk? Able to remember things? Able to understand what's going on?

Is it that the steps are counted from the top, so falling from the first step will result in a longer fall and worse injury?

by **wunderland** » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:19 am

Are they already unconscious before they fall? Perhaps they are sleepwalking?

by **CoffeeBean** » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:29 pm

Do these people suffer from some kind of amnesia or loss of consciousness? No but OTRT (see below)

Are they (the people who fell from the first or second step and can't explain their number) able to talk? Able to remember things? Able to understand what's going on? No, they can't do any of this

Is it that the steps are counted from the top, so falling from the first step will result in a longer fall and worse injury? Yes - good q. For the people who can't explain what happened to them, the number is usually first or second and it is counting from the top of the staircase.

Are they already unconscious before they fall? No Perhaps they are sleepwalking? Sleepwalking could be involved but this is not what prevents the people from being able to explain what happened to them

by **Balin** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Do people incorrectly count from the bottom?

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:39 pm

Do people incorrectly count from the bottom? Not the ones who can't explain what happened

by **Balin** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:40 pm

Are any of the people involved deceased?

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:34 pm

Are any of the people involved deceased? YES

by **Balin** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:52 pm

Are the ones who can't explain the dead ones? Did they die from the fall down the stairs?

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:25 pm

Are the ones who can't explain the dead ones? Did they die from the fall down the stairs? Yes!

by **Doriana** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 pm

Were they intentionally pushed down the stairs?

by **CoffeeBean** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 pm

*** SPOILER ***

A significant percentage of world-wide injuries and deaths occur from people falling down stairs. Of those who fall, the odds of dying from the fall are greater when the person falls from the top (first) or next (second) step of a long staircase as they prepare to descend. Those who fall from further down the staircase or at the bottom (a higher-numbered step OR the first or second up from the bottom) usually only suffer some type of injury. When those who are injured from a fall on stairs go to the hospital they have likely already told someone (emergency personnel, hospital staff, witnesses, etc) which step they fell from, especially if it's near the bottom. However, if a person dies from a fall down stairs, it is obviously impossible for them to tell anyone at a hospital or anywhere else what happened to them or which step they fell from.

Nice job by Balin to step in with the final "steps" to the solution, great work by all who participated

[CoffeeBean] Tongue-Tied [Stepped Up]

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