Lateral Puzzles • View topic

by **Yerushalmi** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:34 pm

Why did I once take an 8.5x11 plastic sleeve, designed for holding and protecting a standard-sized sheet of paper, and fill it with vinegar instead?

by **Doriana** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:36 pm

DM'ing a potential $poyler

by **Doriana** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:48 pm

Type of vinegar relevant? If so, apple cider vinegar? balsamic vinegar? white wine vinegar? red wine vinegar? rice vinegar? other type of vinegar?

Did you put anything else in the plastic sleeve? If so, before putting in the vinegar? afterwards?

Did you do this at home? at work?

Did you take the vinegar-filled sleeve anywhere?

Did you eventually remove the vinegar from the sleeve? If so, after less than a minute? less than an hour? less than a day? longer than that?

by **Yerushalmi** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:13 am

Doriana wrote:Type of vinegar relevant? No. If so, apple cider vinegar? balsamic vinegar? white wine vinegar? red wine vinegar? rice vinegar? other type of vinegar?

Did you put anything else in the plastic sleeve? Yes. If so, before putting in the vinegar? Yes. afterwards? Yes.

Did you do this at home? Yes. at work? No.

Did you take the vinegar-filled sleeve anywhere? No.

Did you eventually remove the vinegar from the sleeve? Yes. If so, after less than a minute? less than an hour? less than a day? longer than that?

by **Earnest** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:43 am

are pictures relevant? Film? Is any chemical process relevant?
Did you want to cancel something? To wet something? Would the puzzle work with water rather than vinegar?
Did you need a specific quantity of vinegar? Did you feel al the sleeve (in contrast of only a part of it and then spreading it on the rest of the sleeve)
Did you artificially "close" the opened part of the sleeve?
Did you repeat the process for several sleeves? Was it part of a costume? E.g. an hospitalised patient? Was it part of a joke? Relevant that on the sleeve the vinegar was visible? Would it work with any other "bag" having the same volume of the sleeve?
Was there something inside the sleeve before you put vinegar in inside? Did you fill the sleeve from the "usual" opening of the sleeve? Did you break it? Did you expect the vinegar to make the sleeve more transparent? Was it an experiment? Relevant that vinegar can corrode?

Did you eventually remove the vinegar from the sleeve? Yes. --> did you put the something in the sleeve after having removed the vinegar?

by **Yerushalmi** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:54 am

Earnest wrote:are pictures relevant? No. Film? No. Is any chemical process relevant? Yes.
Did you want to cancel something? Depends on what you mean by cancel. To wet something? A hesitant yes. Would the puzzle work with water rather than vinegar? No.
Did you need a specific quantity of vinegar? No. Did you feel al the sleeve (in contrast of only a part of it and then spreading it on the rest of the sleeve) Yes.
Did you artificially "close" the opened part of the sleeve? No.
Did you repeat the process for several sleeves? Was it part of a costume? E.g. an hospitalised patient? Was it part of a joke? Relevant that on the sleeve the vinegar was visible? Would it work with any other "bag" having the same volume of the sleeve? No to all.
Was there something inside the sleeve before you put vinegar in inside? No. Did you fill the sleeve from the "usual" opening of the sleeve? Yes. Did you break it? No. Did you expect the vinegar to make the sleeve more transparent? No. Was it an experiment? No. Relevant that vinegar can corrode? No.

Did you eventually remove the vinegar from the sleeve? Yes. --> did you put the something in the sleeve after having removed the vinegar? No.

by **Balin** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:07 pm

When you emptied the sleeve, was the vinegar still in its same chemical form? Did a reaction take place inside the sleeve?

by **GalFisk** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:53 pm

Was the sleeve ideal for the task? Or was it used because you didn't have something better? Would another weak acid have worked? Another smelly/evaporating acid? A strong acid? A base? Did you use it to neutralize a base? Get rid of a smell? Change the color of something? Edit: were you using it to remove limescale from something? Were you bagging a non-removable shower head, faucet or other water fixture in vinegar in order to descale it?

by **hoodie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:44 am

Was it used to remove corrosion, such as on a shower head or sink faucet?

by **Earnest** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 am

Depends on what you mean by cancel --> I mean delete something?

Did you want to unravel something? Reveal something? Take out a natural substance? Attract something? Is smell relevant? Did you want to clean something? Relevant the pH of vinegar?

did I once take --> relevant what was in inside before? Where you took the sleeve from? Was it part of a collection of sleeves? Was there an A4 sheet in inside? An ancient paper? Something ancient? Preservation of food relevant?

Did you put anything else in the plastic sleeve? Yes. If so, before putting in the vinegar? Yes. afterwards? Yes. --> was it the same thing both before and after? Is it bigger than an A4 paper? Smaller? Is it thiner? Is it usually put within sleeves? Is it a plant? An animal? an hand? a finger? a jewel? a metal? iron? a sponge?

Did you eventually remove the vinegar from the sleeve? Yes. --> by emptying the sleeve manually? Or maybe it evaporated (though I am not sure how much heat is due for that).

by **Yerushalmi** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:19 pm

Balin wrote:When you emptied the sleeve, was the vinegar still in its same chemical form? Yes. Did a reaction take place inside the sleeve? Yes.

GalFisk wrote:Was the sleeve ideal for the task? Yes. Or was it used because you didn't have something better? I can't entirely rule out the potential existence of something better. Would another weak acid have worked? Yes. Another smelly/evaporating acid? Yes. A strong acid? Yes. A base? No. Did you use it to neutralize a base? Don't know. Get rid of a smell? No. Change the color of something? Hesitant yes. Edit: were you using it to remove limescale from something? No. Were you bagging a non-removable shower head, faucet or other water fixture in vinegar in order to descale it? No.

hoodie wrote:Was it used to remove corrosion, such as on a shower head or sink faucet? Yes.

Earnest wrote:Depends on what you mean by cancel --> I mean delete something? I guess so?

Did you want to unravel something? No. Reveal something? No. Take out a natural substance? Yes. Attract something? No. Is smell relevant? No. Did you want to clean something? Yes. Relevant the pH of vinegar? Yes.

did I once take --> relevant what was in inside before? Yes. Where you took the sleeve from? No. Was it part of a collection of sleeves? Yes. Was there an A4 sheet in inside? No. An ancient paper? No. Something ancient? No. Preservation of food relevant? No.

Did you put anything else in the plastic sleeve? Yes. If so, before putting in the vinegar? Yes. afterwards? Yes. --> was it the same thing both before and after? Yes. Is it bigger than an A4 paper? No. Smaller? Yes. Is it thiner? No. Is it usually put within sleeves? No. Is it a plant? No. An animal? No. an hand? No. a finger? No. a jewel? No. a metal? Yes. iron? No. a sponge? No.

Did you eventually remove the vinegar from the sleeve? Yes. --> by emptying the sleeve manually? Yes. Or maybe it evaporated (though I am not sure how much heat is due for that). No.

by **trebor** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:20 pm

Was it just one object you put into the sleeve? Multiple items, but the same ones each time? Was it a coin/coins? An engraving? A metal picture? Is it an object that one would commonly find in homes? Is it cutlery? Dinnerware?

Is this correct: you put the object in the sleeve, removed the object, put the vinegar in, and put the object back in?

by **Yerushalmi** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:44 pm

trebor wrote:Was it just one object you put into the sleeve? Yes. Multiple items, but the same ones each time? No. Was it a coin/coins? No. An engraving? No. A metal picture? No. Is it an object that one would commonly find in homes? Yes. Is it cutlery? No. Dinnerware? No.

Is this correct: you put the object in the sleeve, removed the object, put the vinegar in, and put the object back in? Yes.

by **GalFisk** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:46 pm

Did the vinegar remove rust? Tarnish? Odor? Oxidation? Patina? A metal? A base?

by **Yerushalmi** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:08 pm

GalFisk wrote:Did the vinegar remove rust? Tarnish? Odor? Oxidation? Patina? A metal? A base?

by **trebor** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:12 pm

In your life, does this metal item usually live inside the bag? So that you had to remove it in order to get the vinegar in? Or in order to allow the vinegar to get to parts of the metal you needed it to get to?

If not, did putting the metal into the bag aid in the rust removal somehow? Was it a moment of forgetfulness?

by **Yerushalmi** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:26 pm

trebor wrote:In your life, does this metal item usually live inside the bag? So that you had to remove it in order to get the vinegar in? Or in order to allow the vinegar to get to parts of the metal you needed it to get to?

If not, did putting the metal into the bag aid in the rust removal somehow? Was it a moment of forgetfulness?

No to all, though just barely so for the second question.

by **trebor** » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:37 pm

Is the metal thing usually found in the bathroom? Bedroom? Living room? Garage? Home office? Is it a tool? Leisure item? Is it a pair of scissors? Is it part of a larger item? Does it have to do with technology?

by **Yerushalmi** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:31 am

trebor wrote:Is the metal thing usually found in the bathroom? Bedroom? Living room? Garage? Home office? No to all. Is it a tool? Probably not in the way you mean. Leisure item? Is it a pair of scissors? Is it part of a larger item? Does it have to do with technology? No to all.

by **trebor** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:19 am

Is it found in the kitchen? Is it used in cooking? Is it square? Rectangular? Circular? Undefinable shape?

by **Yerushalmi** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:07 pm

trebor wrote:Is it found in the kitchen? Yes. Is it used in cooking? Yes. Is it square? Mostly. Rectangular? All squares are rectangular by definition Circular? No. Undefinable shape? A bit.

by **wunderland** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:52 pm

Did you initially put the object in the bag to see if it would fit before possibly wasting vinegar?

Is it normally used in an oven? in a grill? on top of a cooker? Does it have a handle?

by **Yerushalmi** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:42 pm

wunderland wrote:Did you initially put the object in the bag to see if it would fit before possibly wasting vinegar? Yes!

Is it normally used in an oven? No. in a grill? Not in one, no. on top of a cooker? Yes. Does it have a handle? Yes.

by **trebor** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:58 pm

A pan of some sort?

by **Yerushalmi** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:48 pm

trebor wrote:A pan of some sort?

No.

by **Doriana** » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:30 pm

Is it a spatula?

by **Yerushalmi** » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:07 pm

Doriana wrote:Is it a spatula?

No. But in order not to frustrate you all with having to guess one random item after another, I'll refer you back to these highly relevant questions:

Was the sleeve ideal for the task? Yes. Or was it used because you didn't have something better? I can't entirely rule out the potential existence of something better.

by **trebor** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:37 pm

Was the object another sleeve?

by **Yerushalmi** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:20 am

(Sorry about the delayed response - the reply notification got sent to my spamfilter.)

trebor wrote:Was the object another sleeve?

No.

by **trebor** » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:41 pm

Is it a grater? Does it have holes in it? Is it for food to cook on? To clean something after food has been cooked? Is it a cutting board? Is it for cutting things? Covering things? Protecting food? Checking temperature? Serving?

by **Yerushalmi** » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:02 pm

trebor wrote:Is it a grater? No. Does it have holes in it? Yes. Is it for food to cook on? Yes. To clean something after food has been cooked? No. Is it a cutting board? No. Is it for cutting things? No. Covering things? No. Protecting food? No. Checking temperature? No. Serving? No.

by **trebor** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:13 pm

Is it an element? A grill? Does it go on the stove? In the oven? In a microwave? On a BBQ? In/on another device? Over an open flame?

by **Yerushalmi** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:08 pm

trebor wrote:Is it an element? No. A grill? Sort of. Does it go on the stove? Yes. In the oven? No. In a microwave? No. On a BBQ? Yes. In/on another device? Yes if "another" means "other than itself. No if "another" means "other than the ones already listed". Over an open flame? Yes.

by **trebor** » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:27 pm

Is it a baking sheet?

by **Yerushalmi** » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:35 pm

by **trebor** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:43 pm

Is it an it an item that you think would be common in most North American kitchens? European? More common in another area of the world? Is it associated with a particular dish/cuisine?

I have been assuming, based on the sleeve, that the item in question is flat (or damn close) as well as square. Is this accurate? Is it used for toasting things? When you put the item in the sleeve, does the handle fit in the sleeve as well?

by **Yerushalmi** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:56 am

trebor wrote:Is it an it an item that you think would be common in most North American kitchens? European? More common in another area of the world? Honestly not sure. Is it associated with a particular dish/cuisine? No.

I have been assuming, based on the sleeve, that the item in question is flat (or damn close) as well as square. Is this accurate? Yes. Is it used for toasting things? Yes, if you don't define "toast" as referring only to bread. When you put the item in the sleeve, does the handle fit in the sleeve as well? Most of it.

I suppose that's everything, so...

****************Spoiler*************
It was a hand-held roasting net, very similar to this:

It had rusted significantly, and I was trying to figure out how to immerse something so long and thin in vinegar so that I could then scrub the rust off. I was looking around the house for baking pans that were long enough to accommodate the handle, but even then I'd be wasting a lot of vinegar. Then I spotted the plastic sleeve and realized it was both watertight and exactly the right size. I put the roasting net inside the sleeve first to be sure, then took it out, filled the sleeve with vinegar, and put the net back in.

by **GalFisk** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:34 am

Now that's thinking inside the rectangle.
Did you get it clean?

by **Yerushalmi** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:40 am

I did! It worked perfectly. Though I did need to prop up the sleeve at a very shallow angle. If it was upright, all the vinegar pooled at the bottom and the sleeve bulged outward (I had to put a weight on it to prevent that). If it was lying down, all the vinegar spilled out the top.

by **trebor** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:25 am

An ingenious solution to a household dilemma!

I kid you not [much], I was beating around the bush asking if it was one of those things in the last couple of posts because I had no idea what that thing was called and could come up with nothing better than, "That, you know, thing that has, like, tong handles? And grease can drip through? It's grey. Or metallic. Hand-sieve? Hand-sieve. Was it a hand-sieve?"

What does the title refer to?

by **Yerushalmi** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:35 am

CH3COOH is the molecular formula for vinegar; A4 is a standard paper size.

[Yerushalmi] CH3COOHA4

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