[WiZ] It wasn't a Hat [TIPPED OFF]

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[WiZ] It wasn't a Hat [TIPPED OFF]

Postby WiZ » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:48 am

Matthew sends Helen an item. He wraps it in tinfoil before sending it. This saves Helen money. How?

ROIMBT. Caveat Earlispoilor.
Last edited by WiZ on Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Hobbsicle » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:57 am

Was it a hat?

I am assuming you mean that wrapping it in tinfoil is what saved her money? Such that sending her the same item without wrapping it in tinfoil would not have saved her that money?

Is this one of those sneaky gaming-the-system tricks?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:10 am

Would another metal foil have worked? Such as lead? Copper? Would plastic foil have worked? Does the foil perform the money-saving function? Is the money-saving initiated before sending? On sending? During transport? When passing through whichever people/institutions/companies handle it? On delivery? After? Would this work for any item? Does the foil relevantly reflect something? Deflect something? Conduct heat? Electricity? Make noise? Make the wrapped item appear to be something else? Is the item itself involved in saving the money?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:59 pm

Hobbsicle

Was it a hat? no

I like my misdirections at least slightly subtle

I am assuming you mean that wrapping it in tinfoil is what saved her money? Such that sending her the same item without wrapping it in tinfoil would not have saved her that money? your assumption is correct

Is this one of those sneaky gaming-the-system tricks? no

GalFisk

Would another metal foil have worked? I believe so Such as lead? I believe so Copper? I'm less sure on this one Would plastic foil have worked? I doubt it Does the foil perform the money-saving function? yesish Is the money-saving initiated before sending? no On sending? no During transport? yes When passing through whichever people/institutions/companies handle it? On delivery? After? no to rest Would this work for any item? no Does the foil relevantly reflect something? no Deflect something? yesish Conduct heat? Electricity? Make noise? Make the wrapped item appear to be something else? no to rest Is the item itself involved in saving the money? yesish
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby markobr » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:17 pm

Does it save money because the transport itself is cheaper? Because it prevents the item from some kind of damage (which would cost money to repair? time until the item is useable again?)?

Does Matthew send the item by post? Relevant? Does the item relevantly cross a border?

Is the item made of metal? Wood? Plastic? Glass? Ceramics? Paper? Cloth? Stone? Leather? Is it a plant? Part of a plant? An animal? Part of an animal? A chemical? Food?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Mimino » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:15 pm

Was the tinfoil to deflect X rays?
Was the item in a box, and the box wrapped in tinfoil? so that the tinfoil concealed the actual content of the box when the box got X-rayed?
Customs or import duties relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby trebor » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:11 pm

Would something have happened to the item had it not been wrapped in tinfoil that would’ve resulted in Helen paying more? If so, breakage?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:19 am

Markobr

Does it save money because the transport itself is cheaper? no Because it prevents the item from some kind of damage no (which would cost money to repair? time until the item is useable again?)?

Does Matthew send the item by post? please rephrase Relevant? potentially, yes Does the item relevantly cross a border? no - it could be argued that it relevantly doesn't

Is the item made of metal? Wood? Plastic? mostly this Glass? Ceramics? Paper? Cloth? Stone? Leather? no to rest Is it a plant? Part of a plant? An animal? Part of an animal? A chemical? Food? no to all

Mimino

Was the tinfoil to deflect X rays? no
Was the item in a box, and the box wrapped in tinfoil? so that the tinfoil concealed the actual content of the box when the box got X-rayed? no
Customs or import duties relevant? no

Trebor

Would something have happened to the item had it not been wrapped in tinfoil that would’ve resulted in Helen paying more? yes If so, breakage? but no
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Doriana » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:18 am

Does he send the item through his country's regular postal service? a local/regional postal service? a company's internal mail? a parcel service? a courier service?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:32 pm

Does he send the item through his country's regular postal service? a local/regional postal service? a company's internal mail? a parcel service? this a courier service? no to rest
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Enjay » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:35 am

Does wrapping it in tinfoil mean that it gets sent by a different means than it would otherwise? Gets delivered more quickly?

Does Matthew plan for the tinfoil to be removed at any relevant point (other than presumably by Helen when it arrives)? Does this plan rely on the people involved in the parcel service knowing that the item is wrapped in tinfoil? Is the item itself wrapped in tinfoil, then packaged up? Or is the tinfoil the outer packaging of the parcel?

If Matthew hadn't sent the item at all, would Helen still have saved money? Would she not have had to make whatever payment she is saving money on at all?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:58 pm

PMing a guess.
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:27 am

Enjay

Does wrapping it in tinfoil mean that it gets sent by a different means than it would otherwise? Gets delivered more quickly? no to both

Does Matthew plan for the tinfoil to be removed at any relevant point (other than presumably by Helen when it arrives)? no Does this plan rely on the people involved in the parcel service knowing that the item is wrapped in tinfoil? no Is the item itself wrapped in tinfoil, then packaged up? yes Or is the tinfoil the outer packaging of the parcel? I suspect this would also work, however

If Matthew hadn't sent the item at all, would Helen still have saved money? intrinsically, yes. extrinsically, no Would she not have had to make whatever payment she is saving money on at all? intrinsically, yes. extrinsically, no

GregoryUConn

PMing a guess. You are correct!
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Mimino » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:51 pm

Was the tinfoil to deflect light? heat? magnetic fields? an impact of any kind?
Would the item become worthless if exposed to this impact? useless for Helen?
Is it an audio tape? a film roll?
Is the tinfoil necessary so that Helen can safely take the item out of the package?
Could the item damage something else if not wrapped in tinfoil?
Are Matthew and/or Helen doing something illegal?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby biograd » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:31 am

I don't think I understand what you mean by the distinction between "intrinsically" and "extrinsically". Do you mean that not sending the item at all would have saved money from being spent for the specific purpose at issue here (what it would have been spent on, if the item were sent without tinfoil), but would have required another action to be taken instead of the mailing that would have cost just as much or more?

If Helen already had one of these items in her possession at the start of this puzzle, would that have meant that she would have saved the money regardless of what Matthew did or didn't do?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby markobr » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:44 am

Is the tinfoil intended to mislead someone? To fulfill some condition? To be used after Helen receives the item? If so: By Helen?

Does Helen's saving money mean she would have to spend money if Matthew hadn't wrapped the item in tinfoil? If so: Would she have paid the money to Matthew? To the parcel service? To someone else involved in delivering the item? For her own transportation (e.g. taking a bus to fetch the parcel from the place it's ultimately delivered to)? To the government? To someone selling her tinfoil (which she doesn't need to buy now she has some from the packaging)?

A parcel service ,but not the regular postal service... would the regular postal service have been unavailable? Refused to transport the parcel? Been too expensive? Too slow? Too unreliable? To uncomfortable? Relevant in which country this takes place?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:57 pm

Minimo

Was the tinfoil to deflect light? heat? no to both magnetic fields? yesish an impact of any kind? no
Would the item become worthless if exposed to this impact? useless for Helen? no to both
Is it an audio tape? a film roll? no to both
Is the tinfoil necessary so that Helen can safely take the item out of the package? Not for this reason - she would have been able to do so regardless
Could the item damage something else if not wrapped in tinfoil? no
Are Matthew and/or Helen doing something illegal? no

Biograd

I don't think I understand what you mean by the distinction between "intrinsically" and "extrinsically". Do you mean that not sending the item at all would have saved money from being spent for the specific purpose at issue here (what it would have been spent on, if the item were sent without tinfoil), but would have required another action to be taken instead of the mailing that would have cost just as much or more?

My apologies - I was trying to be concise and ended up not being clear. What I mean is that if Matthew hadn't sent the item at all, he would equally have avoided the expense that was avoided through wrapping the item in tinfoil, but Helen would, overall, have ended up losing more money than if she had received the item.

If Helen already had one of these items in her possession at the start of this puzzle, would that have meant that she would have saved the money regardless of what Matthew did or didn't do? She would have saved money by the means which possessing the item allows her to do, yes

Markobr

Is the tinfoil intended to mislead someone? To fulfill some condition? To be used after Helen receives the item? no to all If so: By Helen? n/a

Does Helen's saving money mean she would have to spend money if Matthew hadn't wrapped the item in tinfoil? yes If so: Would she have paid the money to Matthew? To the parcel service? To someone else involved in delivering the item? no to these For her own transportation (e.g. taking a bus to fetch the parcel from the place it's ultimately delivered to)? no, but transportation costs are very relevant To the government? yes To someone selling her tinfoil (which she doesn't need to buy now she has some from the packaging)? no

A parcel service ,but not the regular postal service... would the regular postal service have been unavailable? Refused to transport the parcel? Been too expensive? no to these Too slow? Too unreliable? these two, most relevantly To uncomfortable? no (although I have never travelled by post, myself) Relevant in which country this takes place? Don't believe so (The US, in case you were wondering)
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby markobr » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:23 pm

So Helen avoided paying money to the government. A tax? Fee? Fine? Price for goods or services the government demands in its fiscal capacity? Damages? Having to pay back money she got from the government?

Is the parcel transported by car/lorry? Train? Plane? Ship? Boat? Helicopter? Bicycle? Animal? Someone walking? Spacecraft? Pneumatic delivery?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:40 pm

So Helen avoided paying money to the government. A tax? Fee? this Fine? Price for goods or services the government demands in its fiscal capacity? arguably this, but 'fee' is closer Damages? Having to pay back money she got from the government? no to rest

Is the parcel transported by car thisish /lorry? Train? Plane? Ship? Boat? Helicopter? Bicycle? Animal? Someone walking? Spacecraft? Pneumatic delivery? no to rest
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:06 am

Is the item electronic? Does the foil deflect radio waves? Does it prevent the item from transmitting? Receiving? Tracking relevant? GPS? Roaming charges? Is there an expectation that the foil might be opened during shipping? WAG: is a radio transmitter packed in the foil, and if they receive a signal from it they know that (and maybe where) the foil is opened?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:19 pm

Is the item electronic? yes Does the foil deflect radio waves? yes Does it prevent the item from transmitting? Receiving? this Tracking relevant? yesish, FA lurking GPS? no Roaming charges? no Is there an expectation that the foil might be opened during shipping? no WAG: is a radio transmitter packed in the foil, and if they receive a signal from it they know that (and maybe where) the foil is opened? no
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby biograd » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:49 am

Is it a cell phone? Is the fee related to "roaming" and/or using the phone on another network? If so, does the phone not being able to connect to any networks along the car's path somehow fool the network into not detecting the true distance traveled by the phone from one end to the other?

Is there a reason why the same result could not be accomplished if the device (whether a phone or not) were simply powered off while transporting it? Does it need to receive a signal at some times on the journey for this to work, such that having it never receive at all is as useless as having it receive continuously?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:15 pm

Is it relevantly prevented form receiving: cell towers? Wi-Fi? Bluetooth? NFC? GPS? FM radio? AM radio? Anti-theft system signals? Edit: toll road signals?
Does it save money on a phone bill? Shipping? Customs? App or in-app purchases? Fines? Relevant why the object is not just turned off instead?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Sundowner » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:49 pm

Was the item a radio? would Helen have to pay a tv/radio license fee if the radio was able to receive a signal?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:13 pm

Biograd

Is it a cell phone? no Is the fee related to "roaming" and/or using the phone on another network? no If so, does the phone not being able to connect to any networks along the car's path somehow fool the network into not detecting the true distance traveled by the phone from one end to the other? n/a, but your logic is ORT

Is there a reason why the same result could not be accomplished if the device (whether a phone or not) were simply powered off while transporting it? yes Does it need to receive a signal at some times on the journey for this to work yes, if I understand you correctly, such that having it never receive at all is as useless as having it receive continuously? please rephrase

GalFisk

Is it relevantly prevented form receiving: cell towers? Wi-Fi? Bluetooth? NFC? GPS? FM radio? AM radio? Anti-theft system signals? Edit: toll road signals? this!!
Does it save money on a phone bill? Shipping? Customs? App or in-app purchases? no to these Fines? potentially, but this would be a side effect Relevant why the object is not just turned off instead? yes

Sundowner

Was the item a radio? no would Helen have to pay a tv/radio license fee if the radio was able to receive a signal? no
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby Sundowner » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 pm

So is the item then an ETC transponder? which is transported by car on a toll road? and rightfully disabled because it belongs to a different car?
Is there by design no way to switch of the device? because you should not be able to switch it off?
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Re: [WiZ] It wasn't a Hat

Postby WiZ » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:40 pm

So is the item then an ETC transponder? which is transported by car on a toll road? and rightfully disabled because it belongs to a different car?

***** SPOILER *****

Yes


Congratulations, Sundowner, on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing!
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