[Balin] The penny dropped

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[Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:35 pm

An individual is installing several brand-new items. After installing each one, the person superglues a penny to it. Why?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Enjay » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:59 pm

Is the individual H?A?M? The individual = the person?

Are they installing the items in people's homes? In a public place?

Is the penny intended for identification? For security? To add weight? Does the person intend that others will see the penny? Will try to pick it up? Could they use a small piece of metal the same size and shape as a penny instead? Could they use a British pound coin? A dollar bill?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:11 pm

Is the individual H?A?M? H/A/take your pick The individual = the person? Yes

Are they installing the items in people's homes? In a public place? This

Is the penny intended for identification? For security? This To add weight?
Does the person intend that others will see the penny? Yes Will try to pick it up? No
Could they use a small piece of metal the same size and shape as a penny instead? Yes Could they use a British pound coin? Yes A dollar bill? No
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby wunderland » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:39 pm

Are the items defective? missing a coin-shaped part? Are they designed to have pennies superglued to them?
Are the pennies loose before they are superglued to the items? or are they attached to something else?
Do the pennies relevantly: seal holes in the items? conceal something from view?
Security against: accidental damage? intentional damage? theft?
Is this an art installation?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:11 pm

Are the items defective? No missing a coin-shaped part? No Are they designed to have pennies superglued to them? No
Are the pennies loose before they are superglued to the items? Yes or are they attached to something else?
Do the pennies relevantly: seal holes in the items? I'd say "cover" holes more than "seal," but Yes conceal something from view? See prev
Security against: accidental damage? intentional damage? theft? This
Is this an art installation? No
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Enjay » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:23 pm

Do the pennies protect against human thieves? Animals? Theft of the items themselves? Some parts of the item? Something that is kept inside the item?

Are the pennies to prevent thieves reaching into some small holes on the items? Prevent some kind of device being inserted into the holes? Are the items being used for something other than their intended purpose?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:17 pm

Do the pennies protect against human thieves? This Animals?
Theft of the items themselves? Some parts of the item? Something that is kept inside the item? This

Are the pennies to prevent thieves reaching into some small holes on the items? Prevent some kind of device being inserted into the holes? This
Are the items being used for something other than their intended purpose? No
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Doriana » Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:05 pm

Are the items vending machines? ATMs?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:58 am

Are the items vending machines? ATMs? Neither
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Mimino » Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:09 pm

Is the penny ever to be removed? does it need to be removed for the item to function? does it need to be removed in order to dismount the item?
Are the items in public places? in buildings? in private houses?
Is anything of the item visible when it is installed (except for the penny)?
Is the hole a key hole?
Would those who attempt to steal take away the whole item? take something from inside the item through the hole?
Is the item attached to a wall? build into a wall?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby wunderland » Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:12 pm

Theft of: physical objects? electricity? data? money?
Are the holes sockets / ports for connecting devices?
Are they covering up USB ports to prevent people using them as phone chargers?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:16 pm

Is the penny ever to be removed? No does it need to be removed for the item to function? No does it need to be removed in order to dismount the item? No
Are the items in public places? Yes in buildings? Yes in private houses? No
Is anything of the item visible when it is installed (except for the penny)? Yes
Is the hole a key hole? Yes
Would those who attempt to steal take away the whole item? No take something from inside the item Yes through the hole? No
Is the item attached to a wall? No build into a wall? No

Theft of: physical objects? Yes, namely... electricity? data? money? ...This
Are the holes sockets / ports for connecting devices? No
Are they covering up USB ports to prevent people using them as phone chargers? No
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby wunderland » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:29 pm

Is the money already inside the items when they are installed?
Are they donation boxes? safes? piggy banks or similar? something else that is designed to serve primarily as a container for money?
Is the penny primarily intended to prevent the lock from being picked? or to prevent it from being unlocked with the correct key?
Is there another way to open the items besides using the keyholes? if so, by design?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:44 pm

Is the money already inside the items when they are installed? No
Are they donation boxes? safes? piggy banks or similar? Not these something else that is designed to serve primarily as a container for money? Yes
Is the penny primarily intended to prevent the lock from being picked? No or to prevent it from being unlocked with the correct key? Yes, but an ish on the word "correct"
Is there another way to open the items besides using the keyholes? Yes if so, by design? Yes
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Mimino » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:46 pm

Cash registers?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:02 am

Cash registers? Yes, or specifically the cash drawers that go inside them.

You have half the solution at this point - the person is gluing a penny over the keyhole of cash drawers to prevent anyone from using a key to open and steal the money from them. The second half of the puzzle is "why is this necessary?"
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Mimino » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:37 am

Are the drawers stored in a place where unauthorized people could access them? Are the keys? Had keys been stolen recently? Did someone lose a key for a cash drawer?
Are the locks easy to pick or to break? Are they glueing the lock in order basically to avoid damage to the drawer when a thief attempts to pick the lock?
Do they expect theft taking place during daytime? during night? during the opening hours of the shop?
Do they suspect store employees to steal?
Is the store open 24/7? Relevant?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:06 pm

Are the drawers stored in a place where unauthorized people could access them? No Are the keys? No, but explore Had keys been stolen recently? No Did someone lose a key for a cash drawer? No
Are the locks easy to pick or to break? Assume No Are they glueing the lock in order basically to avoid damage to the drawer when a thief attempts to pick the lock? No
Do they expect theft taking place during daytime? during night? during the opening hours of the shop? Irrel
Do they suspect store employees to steal? Yope
Is the store open 24/7? Relevant? Irrel
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby wunderland » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:24 pm

Do the locks all have identical keys? so other cash registers of the same model might also have identical keys? and they are worried about being robbed by employees of other shops?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:02 pm

Do the locks all have identical keys? Yes so other cash registers of the same model might also have identical keys? Yes and they are worried about being robbed by employees of other shops? Yes

You've got most of the solution, but there is still one piece missing.
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Mimino » Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:21 pm

Is it common practice in that store that they leave the small cash in the drawer over night? and the drawer in the cash register? or anywhere else in an accessible place?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby wunderland » Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:52 pm

Does the manufacturer offer a cover for the keyhole but charges more than a penny for it?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Doriana » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:23 am

Were they worried about former employees stealing money?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:26 am

Is it common practice in that store that they leave the small cash in the drawer over night? and the drawer in the cash register? or anywhere else in an accessible place? Irrel

Does the manufacturer offer a cover for the keyhole but charges more than a penny for it? No

Were they worried about former employees stealing money? Irrel
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby biograd » Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:35 am

It seems what's left to solve (or at least ONE of the things left to solve) is how the person/people who are supposed to be able to get the money out of the drawers can do so despite the pennies in the keyholes.

Are there two sets of drawers for all the registers? Such that the employees of the relevant store can switch them out when they open the drawers to put in money/remove change? Maybe they have the set of drawers with the pennies in there most of the day, and then before when the store owner comes around to take the day's/week's money out, they put in drawers that are able to be opened? yet they count on the thieves not noticing this?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Sundowner » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:45 am

Normally, a cash drawer can be opened when it's inserted in the cash register, and that should be the only way to open it, so that any act of opening it is documented in the cash register log. But since this puzzle is here I've paid a closer attention to the cash drawers they use here in the shops :D , and they're all without lock! They open only when inserted in the cash register.

Did the shop owner actually want to install cash drawers without lock? but they were not available for the moment? or more expensive?
So he went for those with lock instead and had the lock glued?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:04 pm

It seems what's left to solve (or at least ONE of the things left to solve) is how the person/people who are supposed to be able to get the money out of the drawers can do so despite the pennies in the keyholes. Actually, this is irrelevant.

Are there two sets of drawers for all the registers? Such that the employees of the relevant store can switch them out when they open the drawers to put in money/remove change? Maybe they have the set of drawers with the pennies in there most of the day, and then before when the store owner comes around to take the day's/week's money out, they put in drawers that are able to be opened? yet they count on the thieves not noticing this? All irrel

Normally, a cash drawer can be opened when it's inserted in the cash register, and that should be the only way to open it, so that any act of opening it is documented in the cash register log. But since this puzzle is here I've paid a closer attention to the cash drawers they use here in the shops :D , and they're all without lock! They open only when inserted in the cash register. ...something you said here is quite relevant. See below

Did the shop owner actually want to install cash drawers without lock? Yes but they were not available Yes, explore... for the moment? Not exactly... or more expensive? No
So he went for those with lock instead and had the lock glued? Yes
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Sundowner » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:10 pm

Did they have an old type of cash register? for which only these drawers with lock were available?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:56 pm

Did they have an old type of cash register? No for which only these drawers with lock were available? Yes
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Mimino » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:07 am

Did the shop owner order the cash registers and the cash drawers together? or was it additional/replacement cash drawers for already existing cash registers?
Was he legally required to use cash drawers without lock? so he only had the choice to purchase completely new cash registers that come with drawers without lock? or take these drawers and have the lock glued?
Anyway: was the shop owners decision to go for these cash drawers driven by the idea to save costs?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:01 pm

Did the shop owner order the cash registers and the cash drawers together? or was it additional/replacement cash drawers for already existing cash registers? This
Was he legally required to use cash drawers without lock? No so he only had the choice to purchase completely new cash registers that come with drawers without lock? No or take these drawers and have the lock glued? but Yes, this was his only choice
Anyway: was the shop owners decision to go for these cash drawers driven by the idea to save costs? No...
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby wunderland » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:36 pm

Were the previous cash drawers stolen?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:41 pm

Were the previous cash drawers stolen? No
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:50 am

Relevant what happened to the previous drawers? Did the previous drawers have locks? Were there any previous drawers? Relevant why the only available drawers had locks? If so: bceause of a legal requirement? Because of the lack of a legal requirement? Relevant in which country the drawers were made? Were they made by the same manufacturer that made the cash machines?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Mimino » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:18 pm

Was money stolen from the previous cash drawers? did the thief pick the lock? break the lock? damage the cash drawers so that they needed to be replaced?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:20 pm

Relevant what happened to the previous drawers? No Did the previous drawers have locks? YesWere there any previous drawers? Yes Relevant why the only available drawers had locks? Yes If so: because of a legal requirement? Because of the lack of a legal requirement? Neither Relevant in which country the drawers were made? No Were they made by the same manufacturer that made the cash machines? Assume so, but not really relevant

Was money stolen from the previous cash drawers? did the thief pick the lock? break the lock? damage the cash drawers so that they needed to be replaced? Assume there has been no prior theft, but the installer is aware there might be theft and is taking precautions
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:57 pm

Was only one type of drawer available? Was glue and a penny cheaper than disabling the locks some other way?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:07 pm

Was only one type of drawer available? Yes... Was glue and a penny cheaper than disabling the locks some other way? Yes
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:56 pm

Did there exist a relevant other way of disabling the locks? But it cost more than a penny for each? Edit: if so, was the other way very similar to the gluepenny method? So similar that it inspired the method? Relevant what if anything inspired the method?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:03 pm

Did there exist a relevant other way of disabling the locks? No But it cost more than a penny for each? Edit: if so, was the other way very similar to the gluepenny method? So similar that it inspired the method? Relevant what if anything inspired the method?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:12 pm

Relevant how they came up with this method? Were any other methods possible? Considered? Was any other coin considered? Some non-coin disc? Non-coin other object? Relevant what type of glue is used?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:21 pm

Relevant how they came up with this method? No - this is all OTWT Were any other methods possible? Theoretically Considered? Assume No Was any other coin considered? Some non-coin disc? Non-coin other object? Relevant what type of glue is used? No
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:52 am

HINT:
This is very close to being solved. The important thing left is "why didn't they order drawers without keyholes?"
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Sundowner » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:21 pm

Because they were not available for this type of cash register?
Because they were more expensive?
Because it would have taken longer to get them?
Because they were prone to failure?
Because it would have required extra training for the employees to handle them?
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:49 pm

Because they were not available for this type of cash register? Yes, keep going...
Because they were more expensive? No, but...
Because it would have taken longer to get them?
Because they were prone to failure?
Because it would have required extra training for the employees to handle them? No to rest
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Re: [Balin] The penny dropped

Postby Sundowner » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:35 am

Was it an old type of cash register? or, rather, a very new one?
Does the manufacturer of these cash registers simply not do drawers without keyholes?
Did these cash registers go out of production? or the drawers?
DId the manufacturer close down?
Were the cash registers or the drawers imported in the past? and now for legal reasons cannot be imported any more?
Did they buy the drawers from some leftover stock?
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