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[WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:58 pm
by WiZ
He was no Catholic, but If the U.S. had adopted his reforms, there would be a great many more nuns. Who is he, and why?

No caveat.

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:39 pm
by GalFisk
Was he Christian? A US citizen? A politician? Would there be more nuns in the US? Other places? Would more people want to become nuns? Need to become nuns? Would there just be more people? Would being one be better? Easier? Not being one be more difficult? Was more nuns an intentional consequence of the policies?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:14 pm
by WiZ
Was he Christian? Yes, or at least represented himself as one A US citizen? yes A politician? no Would there be more nuns in the US? yes Other places? potentially Would more people want to become nuns? no Need to become nuns? no Would there just be more people? no Would being one be better? no Easier? yope Not being one be more difficult? no Was more nuns an intentional consequence of the policies? no, although not an unexpected one

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:25 am
by LemonCurry
Would there also be more monks? More convents? Would the extra nuns live like a nun? Wear habits? Assume celibacy? Call themselves nuns? Be officially called nuns?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:21 am
by Earnest
To be sure: are we talking about ordinary catholic nuns devoted to prayers and observing catholic rules unconditionately? (In contrast for instance to zombie nuns...e.g. he is the author of "the walking death" and thought about inserting the story of a nun in the plot). And again to be sure: can we assume that the number of nuns would have increased in absolute terms and not, for instance, as a consequence of the decrease of something else? Are the reforms actuables? I mean are such reforms part of a fantasy or have they indeed been proposed/ could they have been implemented in real life in the U.S./ have been implemented somewhere else? Is Dan Brown relevant?

Are there now obstacles to becoming nun? Objective obstacles (laws, moral rules to be observed, religious rules, tests...)? Subjective ones? Would new nuns be women? Girls? Girls/women who thought about becoming nuns before the possible reforms? Or such that the refor.s brought them to think about becoming nubs? Are relationships with Pope/ Vatican relevant? Would new nuns have the same duties/religious and social path of "older" nuns (of nuns that were nuns before the reforms)? Is being virgin relevant? Gospel music? Belonging to a social group? Possibility of having access to something? Overcoming some law? Not paying for something? Are all religion advantaged by such reforms?Others? Or instead, there would have been so many disadvantages that becoming one would have guaranteed the some right at least? Some right to women?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:45 am
by peter365
Would more people have become nuns? or would nuns have remained in their vocation for longer? Maybe lived Longer?

Is their role in Hospitals or the Education system relevant?

Were his reforms linked to religeon ? Medicine? Education? Is he well known? Is he still alive?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:50 pm
by GalFisk
Would nuns be allowed to reproduce? Would younger people be allowed to become nuns?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:09 pm
by WiZ
LemonCurry

Would there also be more monks? More convents? no to both Would the extra nuns live like a nun? not at all Wear habits? Assume celibacy? no to both Call themselves nuns? no Be officially called nuns? yes, good question

LemonCurry

To be sure: are we talking about ordinary catholic nuns devoted to prayers and observing catholic rules unconditionately? not in the slighest :P (In contrast for instance to zombie nuns...e.g. he is the author of "the walking death" and thought about inserting the story of a nun in the plot) no to the example, but I like the way you think. And again to be sure: can we assume that the number of nuns would have increased in absolute terms and not, for instance, as a consequence of the decrease of something else? correct Are the reforms actuables? I mean are such reforms part of a fantasy no or have they indeed been proposed yes/ could they have been implemented in real life in the U.S. yes / have been implemented somewhere else? no Is Dan Brown relevant? no

Are there now obstacles to becoming nun? I think 'no' is less misleading Objective obstacles (laws yope, moral rules to be observed, religious rules no to both, tests yope ...)? Subjective ones? no Would new nuns be women? some would Girls? most probably not (said WiZ after about half a dozen tabs of fact-checking) Girls/women who thought about becoming nuns before the possible reforms? most unlikely Or such that the refor.s brought them to think about becoming nubs? The reforms wouldn't have influenced their discernment in any way Are relationships with Pope/ Vatican relevant? not to this puzzle Would new nuns have the same duties/religious and social path of "older" nuns (of nuns that were nuns before the reforms)? not at all Is being virgin relevant? No Gospel music? no Belonging to a social group? yes Possibility of having access to something? no Overcoming some law? not overcoming, no Not paying for something? no Are all religion advantaged by such reforms? no Others? no Or instead, there would have been so many disadvantages that becoming one would have guaranteed the some right at least? Some right to women? no to both

Peter

Would more people have become nuns? yes or would nuns have remained in their vocation for longer? no Maybe lived Longer? no

GalFisk

Would nuns be allowed to reproduce? yope, Pandora's box of FAs lurking Would younger people be allowed to become nuns? No - as far as I can tell

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:45 am
by LemonCurry
Would some ordinary people be called nuns? Would there also be some men called nuns?

Would everyone sharing a specific (not nun-like) trait be called a nun? Is a misspelling relevant?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:16 am
by Earnest
said WiZ after about half a dozen tabs of fact-checking ---> wow, appreciated the effort!

Would nuns be allowed to reproduce? yope, Pandora's box of FAs lurking --> ok being an econometrician I have here something to ask: almost every human being has the capacity to reproduce in principle regardless of how he/she is called/designated. Hence, maybe, in order to further improve GalFisk question, with his permission I would reformulate in: would new nuns be allowed to have intimate relations?

Belonging to a social group? yes --> is being poor relevant? Do reforms aim primarily to reduce poverty? Children adoption relevant? Being included in religious community if some relevant social condition is present relevant (I mean automatically without further tests)? Would new nuns become such by vocation? By necessity?


Does the term "nun" have something to do with religion in this context? Is nun an acronym? e.g. "new user network", network user name; something with unemployment in the middle? A way to classify people? If so according to their work? To their social status? An abbreviation? (e.g. I know nun means "nothing") Are official statistics relevant?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:44 am
by peter365
You missed some of my previous questions.

Do nuns enjoy some special benefit that the policy proposed be extended to another group of people?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:33 pm
by invisiblemimsy
Are the 'nuns' pretending to be nuns? Are they assuming the role of a nun to avoid something? To save their lives or that of others? Are they actually nuns in the normal meaning of the word? Could this have occurred somewhere other than the USA? relevant when this happened - past present future/year? Is this something that happened in real life?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:02 pm
by WiZ
LemonCurry

Would some ordinary people be called nuns? yes (I'm reading 'ordinary' as 'non-ordained') Would there also be some men called nuns? yes

Would everyone sharing a specific (not nun-like) trait be called a nun? yes Is a misspelling relevant? no, but explore

Earnest

said WiZ after about half a dozen tabs of fact-checking ---> wow, appreciated the effort! I admit I started to panic for a bit and thought I had to cancel the puzzle - I had made an assumption that was wrong, but fortunately the puzzle still works and all answers so far are still correct

Would nuns be allowed to reproduce? yope, Pandora's box of FAs lurking --> ok being an econometrician I have here something to ask: almost every human being has the capacity to reproduce in principle regardless of how he/she is called/designated. Hence, maybe, in order to further improve GalFisk question, with his permission I would reformulate in: would new nuns be allowed to have intimate relations? yes - that is a good and useful reformulation

Belonging to a social group? yes --> is being poor relevant? no Do reforms aim primarily to reduce poverty? no Children adoption relevant? no Being included in religious community if some relevant social condition is present relevant (I mean automatically without further tests)? no Would new nuns become such by vocation? sometimes By necessity? no


Does the term "nun" have something to do with religion in this context? yes, FA lurking Is nun an acronym? e.g. "new user network", network user name; something with unemployment in the middle? no A way to classify people? yes If so according to their work? no To their social status? yope An abbreviation? no (e.g. I know nun means "nothing" this is relevant) Are official statistics relevant? yes (although not quite as relevant as I had first assumed)

Peter

You missed some of my previous questions. So I did. My apologies, I think I was flummoxed by my own error. I will answer them now:

Is their role in Hospitals or the Education system relevant? no

Were his reforms linked to religeon ? Medicine? no to both Education? yes Is he well known? yes Is he still alive? no, he died in 1931

Do nuns enjoy some special benefit that the policy proposed be extended to another group of people? no

InvisibleMImsy

Are the 'nuns' pretending to be nuns? no Are they assuming the role of a nun to avoid something? no To save their lives or that of others? n/a Are they actually nuns in the normal meaning of the word? No, they are not nuns as we would perceive of them here and now Could this have occurred somewhere other than the USA? yes, but not in every country relevant when this happened - past present future/year? Late 19th century, not strictly relevant Is this something that happened in real life? yes, although the reforms were unsuccessful

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:22 am
by peter365
Any relevant war or conflict?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:49 am
by GalFisk
Would some other group be renamed "nuns"? Be included when counting nuns? Is a specific profession relevant? Would medical workers be called nuns?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:34 am
by Earnest
Is being married relevant? Being omosexual? Razism relevant?

Legend of Polyphemus relevant?
Is the person called nun or maybe under social status it would have appeared "nun"? "None"? Something else? Is slang in administration relevant? Was someone called "nothing" before? Is a pun involved? Would people answer "I am a nun" if the right question is made? If so is the right question: are you married? Are you a student? Do you look for a job? Where do you live? Others?

Assonance: None - nun = nothing? NaN (not a number) - nun? Are two or more previous groups merged into a single one called "nun" or None? Would itbe more practical to call people nun? Easier? In burocratic terms? Is physival aspect relevant? Medical conditions? Veterans?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:48 am
by gregoryuconn
Is the Hebrew letter nun relevant by any chance?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:55 pm
by WiZ
Peter

Any relevant war or conflict? no

GalFisk

Would some other group be renamed "nuns"? yes Be included when counting nuns? no (reading 'nuns' as 'nuns as we currently perceive of them') Is a specific profession relevant? no Would medical workers be called nuns? not categorically, but many would anyway

Earnest

Is being married relevant? Being omosexual? Razism relevant? no to all

Legend of Polyphemus relevant? no (but an interesting read on Wikipedia)
Is the person called nun or maybe under social status it would have appeared "nun"? yes! "None"? This homonym is relevant Something else? no Is slang in administration relevant? no Was someone called "nothing" before? no - but see previous Is a pun involved? no - it is not a pun despite involving a homonym Would people answer "I am a nun" if the right question is made? no, not in those words If so is the right question: are you married? Are you a student? Do you look for a job? Where do you live? no to these Others? yes

Assonance: None - nun = nothing? yes (or an absence of something) NaN (not a number) - nun? no Are two or more previous groups merged into a single one called "nun" or None? no Would itbe more practical to call people nun? no Easier? yes burocratic terms? yes Is physival aspect relevant? Medical conditions? Veterans? no to these

GregoryUConn

Is the Hebrew letter nun relevant by any chance? Not to this puzzle

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:58 pm
by gregoryuconn
Spelling "None" as "nun"? Would it have said "Occupation: Nun" if they had no job?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:33 pm
by WiZ
Spelling "None" as "nun"? That would have been the relevant fruit of his reforms, yes Would it have said "Occupation: Nun" if they had no job? Very close - the category wasn't 'occupation', but this is how things would have unfolded, practically speaking

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:15 am
by gregoryuconn
Was the category something synonymous with occupation (like job?) Headwear (so if it said "Nun" because they weren't wearing anything on their head, it sounds like they were wearing a nun's habit?) Is this some despotic police state where your name is something like Construction Worker H98SAYUD98ASYUFD or similar and if you don't have a job it would be something like Nun JASD9S9D9 because that's how "None" is spelled in this scenario?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:30 am
by WiZ
Was the category something synonymous with occupation (like job?) Headwear (so if it said "Nun" because they weren't wearing anything on their head, it sounds like they were wearing a nun's habit?) Is this some despotic police state where your name is something like Construction Worker H98SAYUD98ASYUFD or similar and if you don't have a job it would be something like Nun JASD9S9D9 because that's how "None" is spelled in this scenario? No - the original guess was closer than all these.

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:35 am
by gregoryuconn
Census relevant? People would list Nun as their occupation? Their title? Their religion? Their religious title (like Reverend, Rabbi, etc.)? Some other combination of religion, occupation, and title?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:24 am
by Earnest
To be sure: was the classification present before the reform? If so, did it adopt the word "None"? And maybe the word nun would have distinguished identity cards/documents among "before the reform" and "after the reform"? Or the reform would have introduced a new category taking Nun as argument? If so, nun was one of the possible arguments? Were the other arguments: Yes? A distinguishing mark? Others?

Is his way of speaking (dialect for instance) relevant? Saving ink relevant? Would the number of people with "None" increased at the time of the reforms? Would newborn people be "Nun"? Would teen? Would the majority of people be classified as Nun nowaday? Would the Nun status of a person be spotted once it has been asked to him/her to show an identity card? Or even without it just by looking at the person?

Does nun refer to: a physical charachteristic of a person? Marital status? The fact that he/she has a child/more children? The fact that he/she has ever committed a crime in his/her life? The fact that he/she has a pet? Distinguishing marks? Presence of a tattoo?

Re: [WiZ] Nuncommital

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:27 pm
by WiZ
Census relevant?

No, and therein lay my scrund - turns out the US Census doesn't ask about religious affiliation, which came as quite a surprise to me, given how much it seems to influence your business, politics, secret societies and rehabilitation programmes.

People would list Nun as their occupation? Their title? Their religion? this Their religious title (like Reverend, Rabbi, etc.)? Some other combination of religion, occupation, and title?

We've worked out the logic, anything else is an historical quiz. So here comes the

***** SPOILER *****

He was Melville Dewey (or 'Melvil Dui' as he proposed), the librarian and champion for spelling reform. Had the US adopted his simplified spelling, many millions would be filling in 'nun' when asked their religious affiliation on official forms, surveys and polls.


Congrachulayshins, GregoryUconn, on the solushin, and thank you everywun els for playing!