[Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

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[Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:43 am

Thon presents a simple math problem and asks for the result. Margo says it will be several hundred higher than the solution Thon is asking for. Yet Margo is right. Why?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby WiZ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:51 am

Is this happening in an academic setting? Is Thon a teacher? A student? Is Margo a teacher? A student? Are they at work?

Is the problem an equation? A formula? Does it have one only one right answer? Is it a matter of interpretation? Have circumstances somehow changed so that the correct answer is no longer the correct answer? Is the problem entirely abstract, based on numbers and/or algebraic characters, or does it make reference to real-world phenomena (e.g. currency values, quantities of something, the age/size/attributes of something that isn't constant)?

Is Thon surprised that Margo is correct? Does Margo have some kind of insider knowledge? Is this one of those infuriating Facebook riddles like that one about Monkeys seeing elephants while going to the river?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Earnest » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:46 am

Thon = HAM? Margo = HTF?
In order to understand: T is asking for a result. Say the result that T is asking for is 16. Margo says it will be of the order of 1000 instead but without knowing the exact solution. Is it correct? Or maybe she knew that it was 1600 already?

Thon presents a simple math problem and asks for the result. --> Can we assume that he asked to a group of people? To a class? Was the solution provided by T before? Did Margo know the solution? Did she only know that it would have been much higher than the one proposed by T?

"it " = the result?
Are units of measurements involved? Relevant the problem statement? Is it about applying a simple math operation? Addition? Subtraction? Division? Multiplication? Others? Did T write the statement? Relevant? Did he make a mistake in writing it? Did T to take into account something? Are the solution and the problem connected to the people he was asking the solution? E.g. "how many pages have the book you are reading?" (maybe not taking into account the books that they had in the backpack). Or maybe he asked to quantify something that the more the better? E.g. "which is the highest number?" and she simply replied "the number that you have in mind but several hundred bigger"
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:22 am

Is the order of operations relevant?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:09 pm

Is this happening in an academic setting? Yes Is Thon a teacher? This A student? Is Margo a teacher? A student? This Are they at work? For svv of "work" - they're in a class

Is the problem an equation? This A formula? Does it have one only one right answer? Yes Is it a matter of interpretation? No Have circumstances somehow changed so that the correct answer is no longer the correct answer? Yope Is the problem entirely abstract, based on numbers and/or algebraic characters This, based on numbers, or does it make reference to real-world phenomena (e.g. currency values, quantities of something, the age/size/attributes of something that isn't constant)?

Is Thon surprised that Margo is correct? Yes Does Margo have some kind of insider knowledge? Yes Is this one of those infuriating Facebook riddles like that one about Monkeys seeing elephants while going to the river? No

Thon = HAM? Margo = HTF? Assume HAM/HAF
In order to understand: T is asking for a result. Say the result that T is asking for is 16. Margo says it will be of the order of 1000 instead but without knowing the exact solution. Is it correct? Not quite. Margo knew the solution, and the result was less than 1000 Or maybe she knew that it was 1600 already?

Thon presents a simple math problem and asks for the result. --> Can we assume that he asked to a group of people? Yes To a class? Yes Was the solution provided by T before? No Did Margo know the solution? Yes Did she only know that it would have been much higher than the one proposed by T? FA

"it " = the result? Yes
Are units of measurements involved? No Relevant the problem statement? Not specifically Is it about applying a simple math operation? Yes Addition? Yes Subtraction? Division? Multiplication? Others? None of these Did T write the statement? He typed it Relevant? Yes Did he make a mistake in writing it? Yes Did T to take into account something? No Are the solution and the problem connected to the people he was asking the solution? No E.g. "how many pages have the book you are reading?" (maybe not taking into account the books that they had in the backpack). No Or maybe he asked to quantify something that the more the better? No E.g. "which is the highest number?" and she simply replied "the number that you have in mind but several hundred bigger" No

Is the order of operations relevant? No
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Doriana » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:13 pm

Decimal separators relevant?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:49 pm

Is doing addition on paper relevant? Did he left-adjust his numbers? Such as:
10
+3
+143
And then start working vertically, with numbers ending up in higher places than they should?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:09 pm

Decimal separators relevant? No

Is doing addition on paper relevant? No Did he left-adjust his numbers? No Such as:
10
+3
+143
And then start working vertically, with numbers ending up in higher places than they should? No
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby markobr » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:28 pm

Number systems relevant? Decimal system? Binary? Octal? Hexadecimal? Roman numbers relevant?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby AlbatrossLover » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:11 pm

Online classes relevant? Did Thon make a typo? A mistake with the platform he was using?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:07 pm

Number systems relevant? No Decimal system? Binary? Octal? Hexadecimal? Roman numbers relevant? No

Online classes relevant? No Did Thon make a typo? Yes A mistake with the platform he was using? See prev
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:30 am

Did he drop a comma? Mistype an exponent? Mistype a regular number as an exponent?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:43 pm

Margo says it will be several hundred higher than the solution Thon is asking for. --> so I have a FA here. I am assuming that Margo knows the answer and knows also what will be the answer given by Thon right? Is the solution Thon is asking for wrong? Wrong in absolute terms or wrong given its typo? Or maybe right given the typo but wrong in absolute terms?

Are distances involved? Real world data? E.g. distance earth-moon? Is being "several hundred higher", a huge difference with respect to the solution asked by Thon?

Are decimal places relevant? Are numbers to be added? is finance involved? Money? Something continuously updating? is time involved? Is the solution proposed by Thon obsolete (e.g. referred to a date previous than 2020)? Is COVID relevant?
Is the typo: in a math operation? In an "English written" part?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:16 pm

Is Thon trying to mislead the class? Teach them to look for errors?

Is the order of operations relevant? The type of math (such as algebra or trigonometry)?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:39 pm

Did he drop a comma? No, but OTRT Mistype an exponent? Mistype a regular number as an exponent? No to these

Margo says it will be several hundred higher than the solution Thon is asking for. --> so I have a FA here. I am assuming that Margo knows the answer and knows also what will be the answer given by Thon right? Yes Is the solution Thon is asking for wrong? No, the solution he's asking for is right Wrong in absolute terms or wrong given its typo? But what he gets is wrong given the typo Or maybe right given the typo but wrong in absolute terms?

Are distances involved? Real world data? E.g. distance earth-moon? No to these Is being "several hundred higher", a huge difference with respect to the solution asked by Thon? svv of "huge"

Are decimal places relevant? No Are numbers to be added? Yes is finance involved? Money? Something continuously updating? is time involved? Is the solution proposed by Thon obsolete (e.g. referred to a date previous than 2020)? Is COVID relevant? No to these
Is the typo: in a math operation? In an "English written" part? Neither

Is Thon trying to mislead the class? Teach them to look for errors? Neither

Is the order of operations relevant? The type of math (such as algebra or trigonometry)? Neither
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Earnest » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:22 am

Oh is it something in different notations among USA and UE relevant? E.g. in UE people do not use the .n notation for decimals, rather the comma notation which I think it's used for separating thousands in US. So basically writing 7.4 in UE it's like writing 7400, while 7,4 in UE is 7.4 in US. Something like this involved?

Did T made a mistake in writing a math symbol (number? operation sign? equal sign? addition?)? Did he multiply rather than adding? Did T took the statement of the problem relevantly from somewhere else? e.g. a textbook? on the internet? Did T make a mistake in the statement of the problem? In an hint given? While writing down the solution? Relevant?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:33 pm

Oh is it something in different notations among USA and UE relevant? E.g. in UE people do not use the .n notation for decimals, rather the comma notation which I think it's used for separating thousands in US. So basically writing 7.4 in UE it's like writing 7400, while 7,4 in UE is 7.4 in US. Something like this involved? Good idea, but it's not this

Did T made a mistake in writing a math symbol No (number? operation sign? equal sign? addition?)? None of these Did he multiply rather than adding? No Did T took the statement of the problem relevantly from somewhere else? It's a very simple problem, so Irrel e.g. a textbook? on the internet? Did T make a mistake in the statement of the problem? Yope In an hint given? No While writing down the solution? No, FA Relevant? Yes
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby markobr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:53 pm

Units of measure relevant? Did T misstate the magnitude of something (e.g. meaning "mm" but writing "cm")? Or confuse metric with imperial units? Use a unit that are ambiguous (e.g. "ounce" or "pound")?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:14 pm

Units of measure relevant? Did T misstate the magnitude of something (e.g. meaning "mm" but writing "cm")? Or confuse metric with imperial units? Use a unit that are ambiguous (e.g. "ounce" or "pound")? No to all
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Doriana » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:38 pm

I'm still somewhat confused so let me see if I have it right: Is the answer Thon is looking for correct given the typo? Incorrect? Is Margo's answer correct given the typo? Incorrect?

Is the problem printed out? presented on screen? relevant?

You said that Margo has insider knowledge. Do any of the other students have the same insider knowledge?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:02 pm

I'm still somewhat confused so let me see if I have it right: Is the answer Thon is looking for correct given the typo? Yes, FA Incorrect? Is Margo's answer correct given the typo? Yes, same FA Incorrect?

Is the problem printed out? presented on screen? This relevant? Yes

You said that Margo has insider knowledge. Do any of the other students have the same insider knowledge? Probably, but assume No for the sake of the puzzle
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Earnest » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:21 am

To clear up the FA: Is there an answer/solution to the problem? Is the one of Thon a typo? can the answer to the problem be defined as "correct" or "wrong"? Did Margo give the solution? Is Thon the math professor? Is neither solution correct given the typo?

Its there a dialog in the statement of the problem? Is the symbol "!" relevant? (i.e. factorial) Does the typo involve a symbol that can be found in normal keyboards? Is it any of these: ". , - : ; _ * ] [ ( ) / & % = ^" ? Are percentages relevant?

No, the solution he's asking for is right --> does it coincide with the one that Margo gave?

Is it a multiple choice question? An open question? A question to be completed? Are three dots relevant? If so: relevant because they let people know that something goes to infinity while it is not? That an answer is to be completed? Than a number is periodical while it is not? That a figure is a line while it is a segment? That there is a series of numbers multiplied?

We said that the problem asked to do a sum right? Is it about summing the same number n times (which is equivalent to multiply it n times?)? To sum different numbers? sum apples with oranges? Use the summation sign?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:39 am

To clear up the FA: Is there an answer/solution to the problem? Yes Is the one of Thon a typo? Thon makes a typo, Yes can the answer to the problem be defined as "correct" or "wrong"? The answer to the problem is correct Did Margo give the solution? No! Is Thon the math professor? No Is neither solution correct given the typo? No, Thon's solution would have been correct

Its there a dialog in the statement of the problem? Not sure what you mean by "dialog" - do you mean "is it a word problem"? If so, No Is the symbol "!" relevant? (i.e. factorial) No Does the typo involve a symbol that can be found in normal keyboards? Yes Is it any of these: ". , - : ; _ * ] [ ( ) / & % = ^" ? Yes, it's a semicolon Are percentages relevant? No

No, the solution he's asking for is right --> does it coincide with the one that Margo gave? No

Is it a multiple choice question? An open question? This A question to be completed? Are three dots relevant? No If so: relevant because they let people know that something goes to infinity while it is not? That an answer is to be completed? Than a number is periodical while it is not? That a figure is a line while it is a segment? That there is a series of numbers multiplied?

We said that the problem asked to do a sum right? Yes Is it about summing the same number n times (which is equivalent to multiply it n times?)? To sum different numbers? This. The specific sum, which is not particularly relevant, is "add the whole numbers from 1 through 5" sum apples with oranges? Use the summation sign?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby biograd » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:01 am

So the intended problem is to "add the whole numbers from 1 through 5", i.e. 1+2+3+4+5=15 ? However, Thon makes a typo, that makes it ask for the result of a completely different calculation? If so, does the typo change the operation of addition to multiplication (i.e. to 1*2*3*4*5)? make it involve whole numbers that can be written using the digits 1-5, but with more than one digit per number (e.g. something like 11 + 12 + 13 +... + 45 + 55)? Change from "whole numbers" (as in integers) to some other set of numbers?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby AlbatrossLover » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:02 am

Is the problem written as 'add the whole numbers from 1 to 5'? '1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 ='?

So the typo involved a semicolon? Did Thon add a semicolon somewhere be didn't mean to? Omit a semicolon somewhere it was supposed to be? Is programing relevant? Was Thon writing a program to add up numbers?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:33 am

So the intended problem is to "add the whole numbers from 1 through 5", i.e. 1+2+3+4+5=15 ? Yes However, Thon makes a typo, that makes it ask for the result of a completely different calculation? No If so, does the typo change the operation of addition to multiplication (i.e. to 1*2*3*4*5)? make it involve whole numbers that can be written using the digits 1-5, but with more than one digit per number (e.g. something like 11 + 12 + 13 +... + 45 + 55)? Change from "whole numbers" (as in integers) to some other set of numbers? Thus No to these

Is the problem written as 'add the whole numbers from 1 to 5'? '1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 ='? Neither, see below

So the typo involved a semicolon? Yes Did Thon add a semicolon somewhere be didn't mean to? Omit a semicolon somewhere it was supposed to be? This Is programing relevant? Yes! Was Thon writing a program to add up numbers? Yes!
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby AlbatrossLover » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:35 pm

Relevant what language he was using? Did the missing semicolon cause the program to loop for longer than it should? Make it do something other than addition? Interpret the input differently (e.g as 12345 instead of the individual numbers)?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:36 pm

Relevant what language he was using? no Did the missing semicolon cause the program to loop for longer than it should? No Make it do something other than addition? Yes Interpret the input differently (e.g as 12345 instead of the individual numbers)? No
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby AlbatrossLover » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:41 pm

Did the missing semicolon cause the program to display an error code, represented by a number like 404 etc, instead of the result?
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Re: [Balin] One plus two plus two plus one

Postby Balin » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:33 pm

Did the missing semicolon cause the program to display an error code, represented by a number like 404 etc, instead of the result? Yes!

****SPOILER****

Thon, a programming teacher, wrote a simple program to sum the numbers from 1 through 5 and asked his class for the result; Margo said "500." Since Thon omitted a semicolon from the program, when he executed it, the result was "500 Server Error."

(Their names were clues: "Thon" is part of the programming language "Python," while "Margo" came from "programmer" spelled backward.)

Well done!
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