[IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

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[IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:44 pm

A man chases a woman down and demands to see her ID. She insists she doesn't have it, she left it at home, it's lost, etc. At last, she relents and hands it to him.
But she begs and pleads with him not to tell anyone that he saw it. He's bewildered, but he sees how tearfully desperate she is and agrees. It takes him years to figure out what happened.
Can you?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Doriana » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:03 pm

Does the man do this in his professional capacity? If so, does he have a job where it's common to ask people for ID? If so, is he a policeman? store clerk? bouncer? bartender? bank teller? post office clerk?

Relevant what kind of ID she shows him?

Relevant which country this is happening in? Is the woman a legal resident of that country?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:19 pm

Doriana

Does the man do this in his professional capacity? Yes. If so, does he have a job where it's common to ask people for ID? I don't think so. If so, is he a policeman? This is closest, but more likely something else. store clerk? bouncer? bartender? bank teller? post office clerk? No to rest.

Relevant what kind of ID she shows him? Yope.

Relevant which country this is happening in? No. Is the woman a legal resident of that country? Irr.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Lynne » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:51 pm

Is he a security guard? Was there a legal reason which made him demand to see her ID? Was there a good reason to see her ID? Is she in a restricted area? Was she running away from him? Or was she just going about her own business?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Doriana » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:52 pm

Did she show him a driver's license? a regular passport? a diplomatic passport? a national identity card?

Is the woman famous?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Enjay » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:37 pm

Did he want to see the ID to check her age? Her name? Her identity generally? Had she previously told him who she was, and he wanted to verify that?
Did she want him to keep quiet about having seen the ID at all? About a particular thing on it? Did the ID reveal something about her she wanted to keep secret? If so, anything to do with age? Appearance? Name? Gender? Profession?

Was the type of ID itself something that she didn't want people to know she had?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:31 pm

Lynne

Is he a security guard? Yes. Was there a legal reason which made him demand to see her ID? Yes. Was there a good reason to see her ID? Yes. Is she in a restricted area? No. Was she running away from him? Yes. Or was she just going about her own business? No.

Doriana

Did she show him a driver's license? a regular passport? a diplomatic passport? Any of these would work. a national identity card? This would usually work too.

Is the woman famous? No.

Enjay

Did he want to see the ID to check her age? Her name? Her identity generally? This. Had she previously told him who she was, and he wanted to verify that? Yesish.
Did she want him to keep quiet about having seen the ID at all? Yes. About a particular thing on it? Sort of. Did the ID reveal something about her she wanted to keep secret? Yope. If so, anything to do with age? Appearance? Thisish. Name? Gender? Profession?

Was the type of ID itself something that she didn't want people to know she had? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Doriana » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:50 pm

Is the photo relevant? Does the woman look significantly different from what she looks like in the photo?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:23 pm

Doriana

Is the photo relevant? Yes, only in the sense that it is a photo ID. Does the woman look significantly different from what she looks like in the photo? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:47 pm

Does she not want people to know that she was seen at 'X location'?
What the security guard suspicious of her before chasing her down?
Is she banned? Is she wanted?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:13 am

Tiger

Does she not want people to know that she was seen at 'X location'? Yesish.
What the security guard suspicious of her before chasing her down? Yes.
Is she banned? No. Is she wanted? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:51 am

Is she avoiding:
someone?
something?
the law?

Is the realization that the security guard makes something he could have figured out at the time that the incident happened? Or did it take years because he came across new information years later?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:57 pm

Tiger

Is she avoiding:
someone? Not really.
something? Yes.
the law? Eventually, yes.

Is the realization that the security guard makes something he could have figured out at the time that the incident happened? Yes. Or did it take years because he came across new information years later? No or irr, possible that something else triggered the realization.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:04 pm

Hint if you want it:

She hasn't actually broken any rules, but she plans to.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby bodo » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:31 pm

Howdy.

"Thishish" to appearance - weight? Hair color? Eye color? Gender?

It seems late to ask, but is she a HAF (at the time of the puzzle)?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:11 pm

bodo

Howdy. Welcome to the rodeo.

"Thishish" to appearance - weight? Hair color? Eye color? Gender? No, good thoughts though.

It seems late to ask, but is she a HAF (at the time of the puzzle)? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby bodo » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:38 am

Thanks - it might even be possible to find one or two of my posts on the old site. :mrgreen:

Any other relevant people present?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:31 pm

bodo

Thanks - it might even be possible to find one or two of my posts on the old site. :mrgreen: One would hope so!


Any other relevant people present? Present or at least nearby, yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby bodo » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:19 pm

[posted to the wrong thread, sorry]
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby bodo » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:36 pm

Relevant others - related to the woman? Are they paying attention because he was pursuing her? Do the relevant others know who she is? Or think they do? Are they sighted?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Nomophobe » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:20 am

In hindsight, assuming that he realised then what he now knows, should the man have told somebody that he'd seen the woman? Should he have gone straight to the police? Would they have been able to arrest her immediately (under, e.g. conspiracy charges)?

Is it relevant where the security guard worked, exactly? Did he work for a specific company? Or for an entire building, e.g. for an office block that rents out floors to different companies?

Was the woman spying on a company / selling trade secrets / doing insider trading trading / something similar? Was she scoping out the area before committing a (for lack of a better phrase) more straightforward crime, like robbery or criminal damage?

Why was the security guard originally suspicious of her... because she evaded his questions? Because he didn't recognise her, and should have done? Because she was somewhere that she had no obvious reason to be? Because it was past closing time, and everyone (apart from the security guard himself) should no longer be there?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:18 pm

bodo

Relevant others - related to the woman? I'll say no, but clarify? Are they paying attention because he was pursuing her? No and FA. Do the relevant others know who she is? Yesish and FA. Or think they do? Yope and FA. Are they sighted? Actually, irrelevant. And FA. =)

Nomophobe

Hi there! I had to google your username--was not disappointed.

In hindsight, assuming that he realised then what he now knows, should the man have told somebody that he'd seen the woman? Not necessarily. Should he have gone straight to the police? No. Would they have been able to arrest her immediately (under, e.g. conspiracy charges)? Probably not.

Is it relevant where the security guard worked, exactly? Yes, to an extent. Did he work for a specific company? Yes. Or for an entire building, e.g. for an office block that rents out floors to different companies? No.

Was the woman spying on a company / selling trade secrets / doing insider trading trading / something similar? No. Was she scoping out the area before committing a (for lack of a better phrase) more straightforward crime, like robbery or criminal damage? No, although it's true that what she is planning has not technically been committed yet.

Why was the security guard originally suspicious of her... because she evaded his questions? Yesish. Because he didn't recognise her, and should have done? No. Because she was somewhere that she had no obvious reason to be? No. Because it was past closing time, and everyone (apart from the security guard himself) should no longer be there? No.

Great questions--figure out what she was doing before he chased her.

Oh, and possible BLOOPER:

Is she avoiding the law? Eventually, yes.

What she is avoiding is (at least in the US) a civil, not criminal, offense. Didn't want to throw anyone off.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:42 am

Is there only one other relevant person?
Does she not want the security guard to tell anyone that he saw her because she does not want to be connected to what she is about to commit?
Is she carrying anything relevant?

Whatever this woman commits - is it something that might be more likely to be committed by a younger person? (e.g. graffiti, shoplifting)
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:01 pm

Tiger

Is there only one other relevant person? Yes.
Does she not want the security guard to tell anyone that he saw her because she does not want to be connected to what she is about to commit? Yes.
Is she carrying anything relevant? Yes!

Whatever this woman commits - is it something that might be more likely to be committed by a younger person? (e.g. graffiti, shoplifting) No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby bodo » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:03 pm

Might her criminalish act be considered assault? Fraud? Larceny? Barratry? Sacrilege? Public indecency?

This will sound weird, but I can't get it out of my head now: is she carrying a pie?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:37 pm

bodo

Might her criminalish act be considered assault? No. Fraud? Yes, I think so. Larceny? See, this is where my knowledge of the legal system fails me. I'll say no. But most would consider it a type of theft. Barratry? Sacrilege? Public indecency? No to rest.

This will sound weird, but I can't get it out of my head now: is she carrying a pie? Haha, no. Stolen off a windowsill?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:43 pm

Is she planning on framing somebody?
So when she runs into the security guard, she has no committed the crime yet.
Fraud & theft - identity theft?

Does she know the relevant other person?
Did she steal that person's identity?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:12 pm

Tiger

Is she planning on framing somebody? Yope.
So when she runs into the security guard, she has no committed the crime yet.
Fraud & theft - identity theft? Yesish to yope. You're getting very close.

Does she know the relevant other person? No.
Did she steal that person's identity? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby markobr » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:27 pm

Is marriage relevant? If so: an existing one? a planned one? Inheritance? Proving to be the owner of something? Proving to be a party in a contract? The existence of a contract?

Is the security guard A? F? Would the guard usually ask questions to any stranger he meets at a certain place? Is it about a more of less random sample of strangers? Or did he have a specific reason to ask questions to the woman? Did the guard suspect that she might be commiting a crime? Having commited one? Trespassed?

Was the/a relevant thing the ID revealed her size? How she looked with glasses? Without glasses? With or without a certain hairstyle?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:43 am

markobr

Is marriage relevant? I was imagining the scenario with a marriage involved, but it isn't necessary. If so: an existing one? This. a planned one?
Inheritance? Proving to be the owner of something? This is very relevant, yes. Proving to be a party in a contract? The existence of a contract? No to rest.

Is the security guard A? Yes. F? Irr. Would the guard usually ask questions to any stranger he meets at a certain place? No. Is it about a more of less random sample of strangers? Not completely random. Or did he have a specific reason to ask questions to the woman? Yes. Did the guard suspect that she might be commiting a crime? Yes. Having commited one? And yes. Trespassed? No.

Was the/a relevant thing the ID revealed her size? No. How she looked with glasses? Without glasses? With or without a certain hairstyle? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:03 pm

Hint if you want it:

Remember Doriana's question:
Does the woman look significantly different from what she looks like in the photo? No.

And Enjay's:
Did he want to see the ID to check her age? Her name? Her identity generally? This. Had she previously told him who she was, and he wanted to verify that? Yesish.

I'll go ahead and change that yesish to a yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:33 am

Is the photo ID real? As in, is her real name and information printed on the card along with her real photo?

The thing she is carrying:
Does it make the guard suspicious?
Does it aid her in committing the crime?
Does it fit in her pocket?

Had the guard seen her prior to this incident?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:10 pm

Tiger

Is the photo ID real? As in, is her real name and information printed on the card along with her real photo? Yes.

The thing(s) she is carrying:
Does it make the guard suspicious? Yesish.
Does it aid her in committing the crime? Hard to say. It's part of the crime.
Does it fit in her pocket? No.

Had the guard seen her prior to this incident? Not on a previous occasion, but something relevant did happen before the chasing.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:03 pm

The item she is carrying:
-papers or documents?
-something metallic?
-a household item?
-something that she stole? from the person she steals the identity of?
-a disguise?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:49 am

Tiger
The item she is carrying:
-papers or documents? Probably not.
-something metallic? Possibly.
-a household item? Possibly.
-something that she stole? Yesish. from the person she steals the identity of? FA.
-a disguise? Probably not. What she's carrying can be a number of things.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:44 pm

Does he recognize the name when she tells him who she is?
Or does he recognize her face?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:41 pm

Tiger

Does he recognize the name when she tells him who she is? No and FA.

Or does he recognize her face? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:17 am

Okay... Let me try a different direction.

Is she pretending to be somebody that she isn't?
Instead of a name, does she tell him some sort of position or title?
Is part of her crime trying to pass off as someone of this position/title?
When she actually isn't?
Does she use this assumed identity to get access to something / a certain place?
To obtain certain materials? Information?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:26 pm

Tiger

Sorry for all the "no"s, you're asking great questions.

Is she pretending to be somebody that she isn't? Yope. Explore.
Instead of a name, does she tell him some sort of position or title? No.
Is part of her crime trying to pass off as someone of this position/title? No.
When she actually isn't?
Does she use this assumed identity to get access to something / a certain place? No.
To obtain certain materials? For SVV of "assumed identity," yes. Information? No.

Find out where they are.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:53 pm

This is most interesting!

I'm sorry for asking but what do FA and SVV mean?

Is it relevant to understand why the guard did chase her and ask her ID in the first place? Is that because of what she was carrying, or was she acting oddly? Like walking fast, watching her back? Or was it because of her appearance? Was she dressed "properly" (I know, I know, this is a bigot person's question)? Was her intent to perform a crime blatant before being questioned?

Is she pretending to be a person who looks a lot like her? Maybe her sister / twin sister?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:37 pm

Malto the Short

This is most interesting! Thank you.

I'm sorry for asking but what do FA and SVV mean? No problem, welcome to the forum! "FA" stands for false assumption: the question itself is based on something you've assumed that isn't the case.
"SVV" Is suitable...variant...value? I think? Anyway, it means that one of the words you used is not exactly right, but close.


Is it relevant to understand why the guard did chase her and ask her ID in the first place? YES. Is that because of what she was carrying, I'd say yes. or was she acting oddly? Noish. Like walking fast, watching her back? Possibly, irr. Or was it because of her appearance? No. Was she dressed "properly" (I know, I know, this is a bigot person's question)? Haha, yes she was. Was her intent to perform a crime blatant before being questioned? No.

Is she pretending to be a person who looks a lot like her? No. Maybe her sister / twin sister? No, but interesting idea.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:21 pm

Was the reason why she was asked to show her ID her very presence in that spot? Like, was she in a place where only kids up to a certain age can go? Or where only men and not women can go? Was she there because she wanted/needed to meet someone?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Ops, thanks for answering the FA and SVV questions!
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:30 pm

Malto the Short

Was the reason why she was asked to show her ID her very presence in that spot? No, she did something relevant while there. Like, was she in a place where only kids up to a certain age can go? Or where only men and not women can go? Was she there because she wanted/needed to meet someone? No to rest.

Ops, thanks for answering the FA and SVV questions! No problem. =)
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:33 am

The third person
Is that a man or a woman?
Adult?
Does that person know the security guard?

The place where they are (I'm sorry I might ask questions already answered to)
Outside or inside?
A road?
Outside the company building?
Is she in a car? Is the car moving?

The thing she is carrying
Is it something that might look like a weapon?

Is it relevant that she is a woman and not a man? Is she pregnant?

Is it daytime or night?

Does she eventually, when he lets her go, actually commit her crime? If so, how much time passes by before she commits her crime?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:30 pm

Malto the Short

The third person
Is that a man or a woman? Irr., let's say a woman.
Adult? Yes.
Does that person know the security guard? Yes.

The place where they are (I'm sorry I might ask questions already answered to) No problem, this is a long and winding puzzle. =)
Outside or inside? Inside.
A road? No.
Outside the company building? No.
Is she in a car? No. Is the car moving?

The thing she is carrying
Is it something that might look like a weapon? No.

Is it relevant that she is a woman and not a man? Not really. Is she pregnant? No.

Is it daytime or night? Probably day.

Does she eventually, when he lets her go, actually commit her crime? Yes. If so, how much time passes by before she commits her crime? Interesting question...part of her crime has already been committed. The rest would probably happen within a month.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:10 pm

Is the crime something she would be able to prevent from happening, had she wanted to, at the moment she was chased? I mean: when she was chased was it too late for her to prevent that happening, or could have avoided it by doing/not doing something else?

Are they in the building the guard works in? Are they by the window? No one has asked yet I think, is she dead now?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:00 pm

Malto the Short

Is the crime something she would be able to prevent from happening, had she wanted to, at the moment she was chased? Yes. I mean: when she was chased was it too late for her to prevent that happening, or could have avoided it by doing/not doing something else? Yes, there are two ways she could have avoided the crime.

Are they in the building the guard works in? Yes. Are they by the window? Irr. No one has asked yet I think, is she dead now? Interesting, but no.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:29 am

Did the guard realize that the crime would be completed later (in a month right?)? Or is that what he finds out years later?

About the other person:
is he/she the woman's accomplice?
Did the woman steal his/her identity?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:19 pm

fromred

Did the guard realize that the crime would be completed later (in a month right?)? Possibly. Or is that what he finds out years later? It could be, but even if realized it immediately, there is still more he could be puzzled by.

About the other person:
is he/she the woman's accomplice? No.
Did the woman steal his/her identity? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:54 pm

Sorry, I just realized I asked something that others had already asked.

Now, are they in a bank?
Is the woman carrying money?
Has the guard ever met the woman again after that day?
Is the third person involved in what the security guard figures out years later?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:30 pm

fromred

Now, are they in a bank? No. Thank you for asking, I think this was a lurking FA.
Is the woman carrying money? No.
Has the guard ever met the woman again after that day? No.
Is the third person involved in what the security guard figures out years later? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:32 pm

Many ideas are crossing my mind, so I'll ask you apparently random questions...

Is she carrying an object? More than one object? Or is she carrying a child?
Are they in a chuch? In a kindergarten?
Did she enter the place alone?
Did she get out of the place alone?
When the guard lets her go after seeing her ID, has he driven his doubts away?

Adout the other person:
you said the guard knows her right? Are theycolleagues? Relatives? Or has he just seen her before that moment?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:58 pm

fromred

Many ideas are crossing my mind, so I'll ask you apparently random questions... Sounds good.

Is she carrying an object? More than one object? This. Or is she carrying a child? No.
Are they in a church? No. In a kindergarten? No.
Did she enter the place alone? Yes.
Did she get out of the place alone? Yes.
When the guard lets her go after seeing her ID, has he driven his doubts away? In a way, yes. The reason he was chasing her is resolved. But he is still perplexed.

About the other person:
you said the guard knows her right? Yes. Are they colleagues? YES. Relatives? Irr. Or has he just seen her before that moment?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:21 pm

Was the woman so upset because she was in a hurry?
Was she carrying drugs or other illegal stuff?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Are they in an airport? Bus/Railway station?

Is the security guard's colleague involeved in the crime?Is her presence relevant for what the man will figure out years later?

Did the woman enter the place with the objects she's carrying? Or did she find them inside the place? Is she carrying a suitcase?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:16 pm

Malto the Short

Was the woman so upset because she was in a hurry? No.
Was she carrying drugs or other illegal stuff? No.


fromred

Are they in an airport? No. Bus/Railway station? No.

Is the security guard's colleague involved in the crime? No. Is her presence relevant for what the man will figure out years later? Her presence was necessary for the event to take place.

Did the woman enter the place with the objects she's carrying? No. Or did she find them inside the place? Yes. Is she carrying a suitcase? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:14 pm

So, are they in a supermarket/shopping mall? Or any other place where people buy things?
Has the woman stolen the objects she's carrying? Is this the reason why the guard is chasing her?

Is she asking him not to tell anybody he's seen her ID because she doesn't want to be related to the crime? Ore is it because she doesn't want him to tell others something specific he's seen in the document?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:27 am

fromred

So, are they in a supermarket/shopping mall? Yes! Or any other place where people buy things? Several places could work, mall is best.
Has the woman stolen the objects she's carrying? Yope. Is this the reason why the guard is chasing her? Yope.

Is she asking him not to tell anybody he's seen her ID because she doesn't want to be related to the crime? Yesish. Or is it because she doesn't want him to tell others something specific he's seen in the document? Noish.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:23 pm

Was she about to steal something when she was chased? Like, was she trying to hide some goods in her pocket while she was still in the mall?
Was she carrying items which she would then use to disguise herself to commit the crime? Is it relevant to find out what kind of things she was carrying?

Is the other guard aware of what is going on? Does she agree in letting the woman go? Does it take to her a lot of time as well to figure out what happened? Is she an accomplice of the woman? Is she trying to make sure that the woman can perform her crime?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:44 pm

Does she hand her actual ID to the guard ? Or a fake one?
Is she wearing what she's stolen in the mall?
Has something specific triggered what the man figures out in the end? Is it anyhow related to the guard's colleague?

Is the second part of the crime similar to the first part? Or is the nature of the two crimes completely different?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:28 am

Malto the Short

Was she about to steal something when she was chased? Yope. Like, was she trying to hide some goods in her pocket while she was still in the mall? No.
Was she carrying items which she would then use to disguise herself to commit the crime? No. Is it relevant to find out what kind of things she was carrying? No.

Is the other guard aware of what is going on? FA, there is only one guard. If you mean the guard's colleague, noish. Does she agree in letting the woman go? Irr. Does it take to her a lot of time as well to figure out what happened? Irr. Is she an accomplice of the woman? No. Is she trying to make sure that the woman can perform her crime? No.


fromred

Does she hand her actual ID to the guard ? Yes. Or a fake one? No.
Is she wearing what she's stolen in the mall? FA and no.
Has something specific triggered what the man figures out in the end? Irr. Is it anyhow related to the guard's colleague? No, the colleague plays a very small role in the puzzle.

Is the second part of the crime similar to the first part? No, they are two different actions... Or is the nature of the two crimes completely different? ...but there is only one crime.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:44 am

****RECAP****

A security guard chases a woman down to see her ID, in order to verify her identity, for a good reason that we don't know yet. They are in a mall. A colleague of the guard is present and a little relevant. The woman is carrying items that she is yope-ishly stealing (irrelevant exactly what items). She gives him her real photo ID, and she does not look different than she looks on the ID. He allows her to go after she begs him not to tell anyone he saw the ID. The woman is yope-ishly pretending to be someone she isn't. Something she does later is relevant to the completion of the "crime" (which, as I said, is I believe a civil and not criminal offense).

That should help wrap it up.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Tiger » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:49 am

Is she buying alcohol / tobacco?
(Oh god, I'm having flashbacks to high school ... :mrgreen: )

Edit:
Upon reading some earlier answers, I realized this can't be it. Oh well!
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:15 pm

Tiger

Indeed it's not, and sorry for the flashbacks. :lol:
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:39 pm

Is it the appearance of the woman that he finds suspicious? Does he recognize her as someone else? Someone he has seen before?
Is the whole crime committed in the mall?
Does he ask her for the ID becuase he suspects she can't be who she's pretending to be?
I know it's irrelevant, but is the other person a cashier in the mall?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:10 pm

fromred

Is it the appearance of the woman that he finds suspicious? No. Good idea to find out what seems suspicious. Does he recognize her as someone else? No. Someone he has seen before? No.
Is the whole crime committed in the mall? The point is arguable (we should have an acronym for that...PIA?). I'd say something else relevant occurs some time after, without which there wouldn't be a crime.
Does he ask her for the ID because he suspects she can't be who she's pretending to be? Not necessarily, but he is confirming her identity.
I know it's irrelevant, but is the other person a cashier in the mall? YES, and not irrelevant.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:23 pm

Has the woman just entered the mall when the guard stops her? Or has some time passed?
Has she taken the items from the mall shelves? Is she buying them? Does she go to the cash desk to pay for what she's taken, after she has talked with the guard?
Is it something she does that seems suspicious to him?
Does she get out of the mall straight after? Does she go home? Or somewhere else?
Is the crime being accomplished in the end?
Will the guard be aware of that crime? And will he find out that the woman has been involved in it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:30 pm

fromred

Has the woman just entered the mall when the guard stops her? No. Or has some time passed? Yes.
Has she taken the items from the mall shelves? YES. Is she buying them? YES. Does she go to the cash desk to pay for what she's taken, Yes, after she has talked with the guard? but No.
Is it something she does that seems suspicious to him? Yes.
Does she get out of the mall straight after? Yes. Does she go home? Or somewhere else? Irr.
Is the crime being accomplished in the end? The crime is accomplished, yes.
Will the guard be aware of that crime? And will he find out that the woman has been involved in it? He may guess the crime has happened on his own, but he would probably not receive any further notification.

Good questions!
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:23 pm

Does she actually pay for the objects? And then talks to the guard? Is she carrying a bag or a backpack?
Does she speak to the cashier? Does she look suspicious while doing this? Does she somehow restrain herself from paying at first? Does she pretend to be someone else while talking with the cashier? By for example faking a foreign accent?
Does she carry the objects she's taken with her when she gets out of the mall?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:29 pm

Malto the Short

Does she actually pay for the objects? In a sense. Explore. And then talks to the guard? Yes. Is she carrying a bag or a backpack? No.
Does she speak to the cashier? Yes. Does she look suspicious while doing this? Yesish. Does she somehow restrain herself from paying at first? No. Does she pretend to be someone else while talking with the cashier? Yope. By for example faking a foreign accent? Not like this.
Does she carry the objects she's taken with her when she gets out of the mall? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:52 pm

Does the guard hear what the woman and the cashier are saying while talking?
Does the woman say something specific that makes the guard ask her for the ID? Or is it something she does physically?
Does she hand money to the cashier? A credit card?
Has the guard's suspect anyting to do with the payment?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:33 pm

fromred

Does the guard hear what the woman and the cashier are saying while talking? Yes.
Does the woman say something specific that makes the guard ask her for the ID? This might be part of it. Or is it something she does physically? Mainly this.
Does she hand money to the cashier? No. A credit card? YES.
Has the guard's suspect anything to do with the payment? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:16 pm

:) It seems we're getting closer to it...aren't we?

Is the guard called by the cashier?
Does the woman sign the invoice in order to pay for what she's bought? If so, is the name written in the ID the same as the one she has signed with?
Are there any problems with her name/signature?
Can she actually pay with the credit card?
Could she have committed the crime without entering the mall that day?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:11 pm

fromred

:) It seems we're getting closer to it...aren't we? You're sooo close. Find out when/how the ID comes into play.

Is the guard called by the cashier? Possibly.
Does the woman sign the invoice in order to pay for what she's bought? No. If so, is the name written in the ID the same as the one she has signed with?
Are there any problems with her name/signature? No.
Can she actually pay with the credit card? She can, yes...
Could she have committed the crime without entering the mall that day? Not this exact crime, but a similar one.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:24 pm

Does the guard stops her while she's still at the cash desk? Or is she already far from it?
Is the credit card valid?
Does she refuse to pay anyhow?
Is it relevant that she pays with a credit card and not in cash?
If I remeber well, the guard wants to verify her identity, right? so does he think the woman is lying about her real identity? Or is he just trying to check who she is since she's broken some rule?
Does she tell anyone her name while she's in the mall?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:00 am

fromred » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:24 pm

Does the guard stops her while she's still at the cash desk? Yope. Or is she already far from it? Yesish, remember she runs.
Is the credit card valid? Yes.
Does she refuse to pay anyhow? No.
Is it relevant that she pays with a credit card and not in cash? YES.
If I remeber well, the guard wants to verify her identity, right? Yes. so does he think the woman is lying about her real identity? Not necessarily, but that is what he is investigating. Or is he just trying to check who she is since she's broken some rule? Noish.
Does she tell anyone her name while she's in the mall? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:43 am

Is the credit card blatantly someone else's? Like, is the name of a famous person written on it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:47 pm

Malto the Short

Is the credit card blatantly someone else's? No. Like, is the name of a famous person written on it? It has her name and picture on it.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:55 am

So, is she running away from the cash desk when the guard chases her down?
Has she paid for the items she's carrying? For all of them? Does the guard think she hasn't paid?
Has something else relevant happened after she's been at the cash desk and before the guard asks her for the ID?
The thing I don't get is: is she stopped for having presumedly committed a crime or due to any sort of doubts the guard has about her appearance?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:02 pm

fromred

So, is she running away from the cash desk when the guard chases her down? Yes.
Has she paid for the items she's carrying? Yope, explore. For all of them? In the sense that she has paid, she's paid for all of them. Does the guard think she hasn't paid? Noish.
Has something else relevant happened after she's been at the cash desk and before the guard asks her for the ID? No, something happens while she's at the desk.
The thing I don't get is: is she stopped for having presumedly committed a crime Yope.or due to any sort of doubts the guard has about her appearance? No.

Remember it's very relevant that she pays with a credit card.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Balin » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:42 am

Is "See ID" written on her credit card?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:10 pm

Balin

Is "See ID" written on her credit card? YES (Or something else that causes this same effect).

Then what happens?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:02 am

So let's do a recap: she is about to pay with her credit card when the cashier asks for her ID. She doesn't want to show it and tries to run away, so the guard stops her and insists on seeing her ID.
This means she hasn't actually paid for the stuff she is carrying, correct? And is this the reason why the guard stops her? And is the first part of her crime simply walking away with the stuff she has not paid for?
Is there any relevant Visible Distinguishing Mark written on the ID? Is this the reason why she doesn't want to show it?
Does she get out of the mall with her credit card? Is the credit card somehow involved in the second part of the crime? Are the objects she takes?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:59 pm

Malto the Short
So let's do a recap: she is about to pay with her credit card or has just swiped it, irr. when the cashier asks for her ID. Yes. She doesn't want to show it and tries to run away, so the guard stops her and insists on seeing her ID.
This means she hasn't actually paid for the stuff she is carrying, correct? Yope, explore this point, it's really all that's left. And is this the reason why the guard stops her? Noish, he is chasing her to see her ID. And is the first part of her crime simply walking away with the stuff she has not paid for? Yope.
Is there any relevant Visible Distinguishing Mark written on the ID? No. Is this the reason why she doesn't want to show it? No.
Does she get out of the mall with her credit card? Yes. Is the credit card somehow involved in the second part of the crime? Indirectly, yes. Are the objects she takes? Indirectly, yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:53 pm

Hi everybody ;) and Happy New Year
Now let's come to business, it's high time we found the solution.

It seems it's worth investigating whether she pays or not, so I was imagining something like that: does she tell the cashier to charge the expense on her account? Is this the reason why she has to show her ID? To confirm her identitiy? Has the cashier any doubt about her identity at this point?
So let's verify the following: she runs away since she doesn't want others to see her ID, the guard chases her down, he sees no anomalies in her ID and lets her go with the items she's carrying because the "charge it on my account" thing actually (and legally) works.

Even if I were right (and I really doudt it), I haven't a clue about the second part of the crime...is she worried that this second part of the crime won't be accomplished if someone finds out what's wrong with her ID? Because something is actually "wrong" with her ID, right?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:17 pm

fromred
Hi everybody ;) and Happy New Year Happy New Year!
Now let's come to business, it's high time we found the solution. You're doing so well; I had no idea it'd be this tricky.

It seems it's worth investigating whether she pays or not, so I was imagining something like that: does she tell the cashier to charge the expense on her account? YES. Is this the reason why she has to show her ID? YES. To confirm her identitiy? YES. Has the cashier any doubt about her identity at this point? Let's assume it's standard procedure at this store.
So let's verify the following: she runs away since she doesn't want others to see her ID, the guard chases her down, he sees no anomalies in her ID and lets her go with the items she's carrying because the "charge it on my account" thing actually (and legally) works. YES.

Even if I were right (and I really doudt it), I haven't a clue about the second part of the crime The key is that she didn't pay with cash...think about the "yope"s involving whether she actually pays or not......is she worried that this second part of the crime won't be accomplished if someone finds out what's wrong with her ID? No. Because something is actually "wrong" with her ID, right? No, good question. It is her legal and completely accurate ID.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:22 pm

Some questions about the CREDIT CARD and the ID:
is the CREDIT CARD the woman's? Has it her name written on it?
Does the woman hand the ID to the cashier? or does she leave the cash desk when asked to show it?

I've got some weird ideas ...so let's try this: is she buying in the mall with a credit card becasuse she has to demonstrate something else? like that the owner of the credit card is there on that specific day, or that she is alive on that specific day?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:04 pm

fromred

Some questions about the CREDIT CARD and the ID:
is the CREDIT CARD the woman's? Yes. Has it her name written on it? Yes.
Does the woman hand the ID to the cashier? No. or does she leave the cash desk when asked to show it? Yes, exactly.

I've got some weird ideas ...so let's try this: is she buying in the mall with a credit card because she has to demonstrate something else? Noish, but follow this line of thought. like that the owner of the credit card is there on that specific day, No, in fact exactly the opposite! or that she is alive on that specific day? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:21 pm

By "in fact exactly the opposite" you mean that she does not want to pay because she does not want anyone to know that she's been buying stuff in the mall? Does she want to make a surprise to someone else by giving them the stuff she just bought?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:00 pm

Would she have paid in cash, if she had had some money with her? Or Did she enter the mall with the intention of paying with the credit card?

About the crime:
is the word "stealing" anyhow related to it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:03 pm

Malto the Short
By "in fact exactly the opposite" you mean that she does not want to pay because she does not want anyone to know that she's been buying stuff in the mall? YES. Does she want to make a surprise to someone else by giving them the stuff she just bought? But no.

fromred
Would she have paid in cash, if she had had some money with her? No. Or Did she enter the mall with the intention of paying with the credit card? Yes.

About the crime:
is the word "stealing" anyhow related to it? Yes, in fact in her case I would call it stealing. But in the US it's a civil, not criminal offense.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby Malto the Short » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:30 pm

Maybe the "marriage scenario" can help us?
Is the relevant marriage the woman's? Is she married to a famous person? Does the crime she perform bring her marriage to an end? Or is she afraid it would, should anyone (her husband?) know that she's been in the mall that day/she's bought something in the mall? Is she trying to prove that she or her husband are the heir to something?
Does the crime she perform make her richer? Does it involve someone losing their job?
Do the guard and the cashier go on with their life afterwards, as if nothing had happened?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:40 pm

Malto the Short

Maybe the "marriage scenario" can help us? Possibly.
Is the relevant marriage the woman's? Yes. Is she married to a famous person? No. Does the crime she perform bring her marriage to an end? Possibly. Or is she afraid it would, should anyone (her husband?) know that she's been in the mall that day/she's bought something in the mall? Her motive in hiding it isn't that important, just that she doesn't want her husband to know she bought something. Is she trying to prove that she or her husband are the heir to something? No.
Does the crime she perform make her richer? Yope. Does it involve someone losing their job? No.
Do the guard and the cashier go on with their life afterwards, as if nothing had happened? Yes, although it's possible they were questioned.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby fromred » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:57 pm

So she doesn't want her husband to find out she spent money, right? Is it just becuase he would get mad at her? Or because she wouldn't manage to accomplish the crime? Is the crime intended to harm the husband himself? I mean, is it against him? I she planning to steal from him?
Is divorce anyhow related to the whole thing?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:50 pm

fromred
So she doesn't want her husband to find out she spent money, right? Yope. She only yopeishly spent money--the meaning of that is the only thing you have left to discover. Is it just becuase he would get mad at her? Or because she wouldn't manage to accomplish the crime? Is the crime intended to harm the husband himself? I mean, is it against him? I she planning to steal from him? Her motive is irr.
Is divorce anyhow related to the whole thing? Irr.
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby GalFisk » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:20 am

Yopishly spending money: spending tokens? Gift cards? Other things representing money? Spending money but earning it back in the process? Such as buying a winning lottery ticket?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:52 am

Has she yopishly paid for her purchase because she used a credit card and is not liable for the charges until the end of the month? Is she trying to avoid her husband realizing that she is shopping at all? Perhaps she is a recovering shopoholic?

Except it's a civil offense. I'm only vaguely sure what those even are, and the only ones which come to mind are local ordinances and maybe traffic laws. Could she be fined for whatever she's doing? Jailed for a short period? Put on probation?
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Re: [IrishElk] Rockin' the Suburbs

Postby irishelk » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:17 pm

GalFisk

Yopishly spending money: spending tokens? Gift cards? Other things representing money? In a sense. Spending money but earning it back in the process? Such as buying a winning lottery ticket? No to rest.


JenBurdoo

Has she yopishly paid for her purchase because she used a credit card and is not liable for the charges until the end of the month? YES. Is she trying to avoid her husband realizing that she is shopping at all? Perhaps she is a recovering shopoholic? Something along these lines.

Except it's a civil offense. I'm only vaguely sure what those even are, and the only ones which come to mind are local ordinances and maybe traffic laws. Could she be fined for whatever she's doing? Jailed for a short period? Put on probation?

I'm going to say that's enough for a spoiler, because this one has dragged on loooong enough. Very well done to Jen, Galfisk, Malto, fromred, and everyone who, incredibly, stuck with it.

******************************SPOILER
The woman had her genuine ID and was paying with her own credit card, but she didn't want the security guard to see this because she didn't intend to pay her credit card bill.

She bought a lot of expensive items at a store, and she planned to wait until the purchase showed up on her bill (or online account) and claim not to have made the purchase. She could even claim her card was stolen. But at the counter, the clerk asked for her ID. If the store employees could ID her making the purchase, she couldn't make the claim that someone had stolen her identity. So she ran, a security guard caught her, and she had to admit it was her making the purchase. She tearfully begged him to tell no one (including the credit card company if they contacted the store) that he had seen her ID and verified that she was who she said she was. Without understanding the request, he agreed, and she was able to make the purchase which she had no intent of ever paying the bill for.



I originally imagined that she had an overbearing relative or husband, and she was trying to make purchases to start a new life but didn't have the money to do so. But just the credit card part alone got way too complicated to make you all guess the backstory too. XD

The "civil offense" was not paying her credit card bill--at least in the US, you can't go to jail just for being in debt. If she had falsely reported the card stolen I think it's fraud, which could be a criminal offense, but again I figured that was too complicated to be helpful.
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