[Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

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[Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:38 pm

Knitting brought her an early demise.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Doriana » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:21 pm

Knitting = making something from yarn using long needles?
her = H/A/F?
demise = death?
Was she the one who knitted?

Shot in the dark: Is she a cat that choked to death on a piece of yarn?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:45 pm

Knitting = making something from yarn using long needles? yes
her = H/A/F? yes
demise = death? yes
Was she the one who knitted? yes

Shot in the dark: Is she a cat that choked to death on a piece of yarn? no
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby rbruma » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:29 pm

Cause of death: poisoning? shooting? stabbing?

Did she die while knitting? If not, from the time she last did this activity till the time of her death: seconds? minutes? hours? days?

Are there any other relevant persons? If so: 1? 2-3? more?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:42 pm

Cause of death: poisoning? shooting? this one stabbing?

Did she die while knitting? yes If not, from the time she last did this activity till the time of her death: seconds? minutes? hours? days?

Are there any other relevant persons? yes If so: 1? 2-3? more? one plus many other peripheral persons
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Tiger » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:45 pm

Was she the intended victim of the shooting?
Did knitting place her in a specific place at a specific time that caused her to die?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:34 pm

Was she the intended victim of the shooting? yes
Did knitting place her in a specific place at a specific time that caused her to die? yes, you could say that
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Doriana » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:53 pm

The person who shot her: H/A/M? H/A/F?

Did the person who shot her realize that she was knitting? Or did s/he think she was doing something else? maybe something dangerous?

Does this happen at an airport?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:08 pm

The person who shot her: H/A/M? this one H/A/F?

Did the person who shot her realize that she was knitting? yes Or did s/he think she was doing something else? no maybe something dangerous? but this as well

Does this happen at an airport? no
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Doriana » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:10 pm

So, the man who shot her thought that her knitting was dangerous, right?

Do they know each other?
Are their jobs relevant? If yes, does the man work for the police? security? law enforcement?
Is the location relevant?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:13 pm

So, the man who shot her thought that her knitting was dangerous, right? yope

Do they know each other? no
Are their jobs relevant?yes If yes, does the man work for the police? security? law enforcement? any or all of these
Is the location relevant? yes
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Doriana » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:26 pm

Are they indoors? outdoors? in a vehicle? when this happens?

Had the woman committed a crime prior to her death? Is her job relevant too?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:34 pm

Are they indoors? outdoors? this one in a vehicle? when this happens?

Had the woman committed a crime prior to her death? yes Is her job relevant too? yes
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Tiger » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:21 pm

Did the man who shot her believe that she was concealing a weapon?
Or was going to use the knitting needles in a threatening/dangerous way?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:20 am

Did the man who shot her believe that she was concealing a weapon? no
Or was going to use the knitting needles in a threatening/dangerous way? no
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby rbruma » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:49 am

Was her activity intended as signal for some other accomplices? Was it thought to be that way?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:53 am

Was her activity intended as signal for some other accomplices? no Was it thought to be that way? no
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:17 am

Does the sound made by knitting contribute to her death? Does it matter what she is knitting?

I'm reminded of one of those really itchy scarves my mother used to knit me.

Does she say anything? Like counting stiches or mumbling 'plain one , pearl one' etc.

Does her killing save lives? Would it be considered a reasonable use of force? Does her appearance not fit what you might stereotypically think a knitter would look like?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:20 am

Does the sound made by knitting contribute to her death? no Does it matter what she is knitting? no

I'm reminded of one of those really itchy scarves my mother used to knit me. hehe
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:24 am

Sorry, nearly missed these

Does she say anything? no Like counting stiches or mumbling 'plain one , pearl one' etc. no

Does her killing save lives? no Would it be considered a reasonable use of force? to the killer, yes Does her appearance not fit what you might stereotypically think a knitter would look like? she looked like a typical knitter, but explore

ETA (edited to add) that the killer AND the peripheral people would consider it a reasonable use of force
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Malto the Short » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:49 am

Is the thing she is knitting relevant in itself? Is she knitting a flag, or a banner? Does this object bring to mind the crime she committed?
Are we in a dangerous place, like a street in a country where a revolution is taking place?
Does her killing prevent any damage at all?
Was she aware that her position was potentially dangerous for herself?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:59 am

Is the thing she is knitting relevant in itself? no Is she knitting a flag, or a banner? no Does this object bring to mind the crime she committed? no
Are we in a dangerous place, like a street in a country where a revolution is taking place? yes but not that exactly
Does her killing prevent any damage at all? the killer and peripherals would think so
Was she aware that her position was potentially dangerous for herself? yope, explore
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby rbruma » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:43 pm

If she would have been at the exact location at the same time, but not knitting (staying idly, let's say), would she be shot too?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:53 pm

If she would have been at the exact location at the same time, but not knitting (staying idly, let's say), would she be shot too? no she wouldn't
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:31 pm

Is there a relevant ball of wool? Is it moving along the ground as she completes each row? Do we need to ascertain for how long she is knitting before she is shot? Is her intention to actually create a garment? provide and alibi? create a diversion?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Tiger » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:34 pm

Does she know that she is about to be shot / in danger of being shot?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:39 pm

Does she know that she is about to be shot / in danger of being shot She was aware that she could be shot but not at that time.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Tiger » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:40 pm

You missed peter365's questions above mine.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:41 pm

Is there a relevant ball of wool? no Is it moving along the ground as she completes each row?no Do we need to ascertain for how long she is knitting before she is shot? no, let's say half an hour Is her intention to actually create a garment? no provide and alibi? in a loose sense of the word create a diversion? no

ETA no to alibi, that would mislead
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:56 pm

Does the amount of knitting she has completed give away the fact that she committed the crime? Can she knit? Or is she making a complete mess of it?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:01 pm

Does the amount of knitting she has completed give away the fact that she committed the crime? no Can she knit? yes Or is she making a complete mess of it? no
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:06 pm

Does the law enforcement officer believe his life is in danger? That the lady is armed? That she is a suicide bomber? Would the shooter be facing any charges?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:09 pm

Does the law enforcement officer believe his life is in danger? no That the lady is armed? no That she is a suicide bomber? no Would the shooter be facing any charges? nope
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:13 pm

Was she breaking a curfew? Is there a major incident going on? Is her shooting a mistake but not enough to warrant a charge?

Is the woman elderly? Is there anyone else in the vacinity? Is she in a public place? A park?

Sorry if i'm repeating some questions
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:17 pm

Was she breaking a curfew? no Is there a major incident going on? you could certainly say that Is her shooting a mistake but not enough to warrant a charge? no, no mistake

Is the woman elderly? irrelevant Is there anyone else in the vacinity? yes Is she in a public place? yes A park? no

Sorry if i'm repeating some questions I don't think you are, not that it would matter
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:50 pm

Has the woman failed to respond to a warning? Does she and the office have any conversation before the shooting?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:44 pm

Has the woman failed to respond to a warning? no Does she and the office have any conversation before the shooting? less than ten words
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby sunshine » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:51 am

Is she a spy? Is this during a war? Is she knitting a coded message? Is she planning to take the knitting away with her? or to pass it to someone else? Do we need to know exactly where she is?
Hi to you too, Lynne! ;)
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:57 am

Is she a spy?YES SHE IS! Is this during a war? YES Is she knitting a coded message? no Is she planning to take the knitting away with her? n/r or to pass it to someone else? no Do we need to know exactly where she is? well, not to the precise location, but a very general area
Hi to you too, Lynne! ;) So good to see you!

You're on the right track, but no coded messages here. This isn't Baghdad ;-)
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby sunshine » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:05 pm

Is the knitting done to make her continued presence seem reasonable? Does she hear/eavesdrop on something? Is she watching something? Someone? Is she waiting for something to happen? Is wool commonly available wherever she is? Is her knitting bag relevant? The kind of wool being used? Does she hope to gather information? To cause something to happen? Are the other people casual passers by? Military? Political?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:15 pm

Is the knitting done to make her continued presence seem reasonable? Exactly so
Does she hear/eavesdrop on something? yes
Is she watching something? yes
Someone? yes
Is she waiting for something to happen? Possibly - the actual details of her spying are less relevant than the fact that she's spying
Is wool commonly available wherever she is? Yes
Is her knitting bag relevant? No
The kind of wool being used? No
Does she hope to gather information? Yes
To cause something to happen? No
Are the other people casual passers by? Some are
Military? Some are
Political? And possibly this

No further details of her actual spying are necessary. What gave her away, causing her to be shot?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Tiger » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:14 pm

Did she respond to something that she heard, blowing her cover in the process?
Was she pretending to listen to music?
Does she do something subconsciously to give herself away?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:34 pm

Did she respond to something that she heard, blowing her cover in the process? no
Was she pretending to listen to music? no
Does she do something subconsciously to give herself away? I don't know whether you'd say it was done subconsciously, but it was certainly something she wasn't aware of
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Tiger » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:06 pm

Does she in some way demonstrate allegiance to the enemy?
Is she aware that she is being watched?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:12 pm

Does she in some way demonstrate allegiance to the enemy? yes
Is she aware that she is being watched? yes
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby sunshine » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:34 pm

Is it the way she's holding the needles (a la Miss Marple - or, no, I think I mean Miss Silver..)?
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:25 pm

Is it the way she's holding the needles (a la Miss Marple - or, no, I think I mean Miss Silver..)? YES IT IS!

That's good enough, I'll elaborate in the spioler. So where and when did this happen, in very general terms? (I'm led to believe this actually happened, but I can't find my source. Still, it could happen.)
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby sunshine » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:48 pm

Germany or Austria? Other occupied country? WW2? Pos even WW1? Very hazy recollection of someone's governess holding the needles in her lap in the continental way as opposed to the more usual under arm way in UK. Might be completely off track!
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:59 pm

Germany or Austria? Germany Other occupied country? WW2? yes Pos even WW1?

Very hazy recollection of someone's governess holding the needles in her lap in the continental way as opposed to the more usual under arm way in UK. Might be completely off track! Not at all - see spoiler

****************** SPOILER *********************

The lady in question was asked to spy on troop movements on a railway station. 'Sit there with your knitting' they said. 'You'll look like an innocent lady just doing her knitting' they said. What they didn't realise was that back then 'German style' knitting was different to English style. Not so much whether they held the needle under their arm, but how they held the yarn. German style was that the yarn was held in the left hand, whereas English style it's held in the right and then thrown/flicked over the end of the needle. A German officer approached her and asked her 'who taught you to knit like that?' Without thinking, she said 'my mother' which blew her cover and the conversation came to a close with a bang.

Nowadays it's more commonly known as Continental style and thanks to the Internet it's been adopted by people in other countries, but back then it was as much a marker of your nationality as how you used your cutlery at the table, or which way you looked when you crossed the road.


Thank you one and all, and especially Sunshine who clinched it.

Edited as I couldn't tell my left from my right.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby sunshine » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:08 pm

Good puzzle - thanks for the invite. There's life in the old 'un yet (me, not you!) ;)
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:11 pm

Thank you. And Happy Birthday!

I know that Elizabeth Zimmerman who later became a prolific writer and teacher of knitting was taught by her German governess. She was roundly castigated at school by her teacher for knitting in the German way. This would be soon after the war and a lot of prejudice still felt.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby peter365 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:55 pm

Excellent puzzle Lynne.

Not sure you've seen it but there's a scene in Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds in which someone gives themselves away as a spy by indicating three drinks to a barman by hold up his Index, Middle and Ring finger whereas a german would hold up his thumb index and middle.

The devils in the detail.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Doriana » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:59 pm

Nice puzzle!
Bummer, I was away for the weekend and missed most of it - but I think I could have solved it as soon as it was established that she is a spy. My mum, who is an avid German-style knitter, told me about the different knitting styles once; and the whole detail-gives-the-foreigner-away thing also made me think of the scene in Inglorious Basterds.
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Re: [Lynne] Bang bang, you're dead

Postby Lynne » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:20 pm

Thanks Peter and Doriana. Sunshine is a particularly insightful player. We've known each other through the forum since before the turn of the century (I love saying that!) She doesn't play as much as she used to, but she usually gets to the heart of the matter very quickly!
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