[yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

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[yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:35 am

including the inspiration for the puzzle was inspired by GalFisk -- thanks, pal!

When reading a list of ingredients on a food-product label, one of them always makes me laugh when it appears. After laughing, I become rather humble.
Last edited by yojimbo on Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby biograd » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:37 am

Is the ingredient on its own funny? In other words, if you merely read somewhere that this ingredient exists, but didn't actually know of a product that contains it, would you laugh? or is the ingredient only funny when paired with the type of food in which it occurs?

Is the ingredient oxymoronic (or does it sound so)--like for example if there existed an ingredient called "dehydrated water"?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:09 am

Are you humbled in the face of: greatness? Ingenuity? Human endeavor? History? The size of the earth? Or the universe? Or the size or vastness of some other physical thing? Something personal to you?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:03 pm

biograd
Is the ingredient on its own funny? yes In other words, if you merely read somewhere that this ingredient exists, but didn't actually know of a product that contains it, would you laugh? or is the ingredient only funny when paired with the type of food in which it occurs? merely thinking of it now makes me laugh
Is the ingredient oxymoronic (or does it sound so)--like for example if there existed an ingredient called "dehydrated water"? Dehydrated water exists, and that's why I, and a few others in my damp region, have superpowers. Please, let's keep that between us.

GalFisk
Are you humbled in the face of: greatness? DOYD Ingenuity? OTRT Human endeavor? no History? The size of the earth? Or the universe? Or the size or vastness of some other physical thing? Something personal to you? No to rest
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:06 pm

Is the ingredient: animal? Animal product? Plant? Mineral? Manmade? An additive? Preservative? Is it funny for: most people? People of a certain profession? Or hobby? Or interest? People who know a certain fact? Is it funny in other languages? Is it made by a machine? Is the production method relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:14 pm

Is the ingredient: animal? Animal product? thisish Plant? Mineral? Manmade? mostly -- but since a small workaround route has been taken, I laugh when I see it named, even though the ingredient would have been pretty-much-definitely synthesized An additive? this Preservative? Is it funny for: most people? People of a certain profession? Or hobby? Or interest? People who know a certain fact? this Is it funny in other languages? surely it would be, if they knew of it as I think of it Is it made by a machine? labs involved, but not relevant Is the production method relevant? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:52 pm

Wild-assed guess: salt of hartshorn?
If not, does it have a defined chemical composition? Is it a leavening agent? Coloring agent? Emulsifier? Foaming agent/surfactant? Defoaming agent? Thickening/gelling agent? Antioxidant? Vitamin? Mineral? Flavor enhancer? Does it contain sodium? Sulfur? Protein?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Wild-assed guess: salt of hartshorn? no
If not, does it have a defined chemical composition? yes Is it a leavening agent? Coloring agent? Emulsifier? Foaming agent/surfactant? Defoaming agent? Thickening/gelling agent? Antioxidant? Vitamin? Mineral? Flavor enhancer? this Does it contain sodium? Sulfur? Protein? none of these -- actually a rather simple molecule, as I understand
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:28 pm

Is it a sweetener? A sugar? Sugar alcohol? Does it contain carbon? Hydrogen? Aspartame? Funny because it contains the word "Sparta"? And "Tame"? (and, if you will, "ass"?)
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby biograd » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:16 pm

So it's both yesishly an animal product and also a synthetic ingredient of well-defined chemical composition? Is some sort of raw material for making this synthetic substance extracted from an animal product? Is the animal product a type of meat? a bodily fluid from the animal? the bones of an animal?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:19 pm

Gelatin?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:06 am

GalFisk
Is it a sweetener? A sugar? Sugar alcohol? none of these Does it contain carbon? yes Hydrogen? yes Aspartame? no Funny because it contains the word "Sparta"? And "Tame"? (and, if you will, "ass"?) no -- nice guess, though

biograd
So it's both yesishly an animal product and also a synthetic ingredient of well-defined chemical composition? correct Is some sort of raw material for making this synthetic substance extracted from an animal product? yes Is the animal product a type of meat? a bodily fluid from the animal? this the bones of an animal?

Balin
Gelatin? no -- I haven't researched this, so I could be wrong, but I don't think there's a chemical process for synthesizing gelatin, perhaps due to the abundant supply of raw material from the meat industry -- which is why vegans can't have Altoids, gelatin desserts, and other fun stuff -- and not only that, gelatin is frequently derived from pork, adherents of some religions are subject to the same limitations.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby biograd » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:36 am

Gelatin is collagen (a protein) that has been partly broken down, so its chemical composition is not well-defined. There are other edible polymers that "gel", but even those with defined structure are, to my knowledge, always obtained from living organisms. One could chemically synthesize something that would work, but it's much cheaper to let nature's enzymes build it for you...

That said, is the starting point for making this ingredient honey? some kind of exuded "glue" (like what some insects use to stick to plants)? blood? (Dare I say it) urine?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:52 am

Gelatin is collagen (a protein) that has been partly broken down, so its chemical composition is not well-defined. There are other edible polymers that "gel", but even those with defined structure are, to my knowledge, always obtained from living organisms. One could chemically synthesize something that would work, but it's much cheaper to let nature's enzymes build it for you...
Long-time professional chef, and erstwhile chemist [aspired towards a degree, even], I'm well up-to-speed about the origins of aspic, for example. yojimbo knows how to make tough cuts soft -- generally, wet and low heat, to denature the collagens -- the trick to making shoulder cuts tender, and some others...

That said, is the starting point for making this ingredient honey? some kind of exuded "glue" (like what some insects use to stick to plants)? blood? (Dare I say it) urine? none of these -- gelatin and collagens not relevant, but animal secretions and lab synthesis are
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:18 am

Is the name of the ingredient relevant to why you laugh? To why you become humble? If the ingredient were called something completely different (like "midgwomb"), would you still have the same reaction?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:42 am

Is it a wax? Does it come from bees? Other insects? Mammals? Is it milk? Is it ever eaten in its original state? To harvest it, must the animal be disturbed? Domesticated? Slaughtered? Is it harvested form the animal itself? From the animal's dwelling? From leavings?
Edit: is it that additive originally made from hair, including human hair? Cysteine?
Edit2: nevermind, cysteine has sulfur.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:09 pm

Balin
Is the name of the ingredient relevant to why you laugh? yes -- however, the name is not in the general lexicon, but based on one person's misunderstanding about the ingredient's origin To why you become humble? yes If the ingredient were called something completely different (like "midgwomb"), would you still have the same reaction? perhaps, but I would have to make a mental and lateral leap, I think

GalFisk
Is it a wax? no Does it come from bees? Other insects? Mammals? this Is it milk? no Is it ever eaten in its original state? oh, god no To harvest it, must the animal be disturbed? very much Domesticated? don't think they can be Slaughtered? yes Is it harvested form the animal itself? yes From the animal's dwelling? From leavings?
Edit: is it that additive originally made from hair, including human hair? no Cysteine? pretty sure amino acids are not relevant
Edit2: nevermind, cysteine has sulfur.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:26 pm

Are the mammals hunted? Does it exist in only one species? Is it taken from the: gut? Liver? Skin? Brain? Blood? Muscles? A specific organ?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:17 pm

Are the mammals hunted? yesish Does it exist in only one species? I believe so -- or AFAIK [there's an old-school abbreviation for you] Is it taken from the: gut? Liver? Skin? Brain? Blood? Muscles? A specific organ? thisish
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby biograd » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:22 pm

Does this mammal secrete this fluid outside of its body (like beeswax or spider silk are)? or is it produced and used internally (like bile, pancreatic enzymes, or collagen)?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:37 am

Does this mammal secrete this fluid outside of its body (like beeswax or spider silk are)? this or is it produced and used internally (like bile, pancreatic enzymes, or collagen)? Not sure what its purpose is, but I have a hunch
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby emeraldink » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:28 am

Is the food of European / Western cuisine? Asian? Other?

Are the mammals water- or near-water-dwelling animals?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:50 am

Is the food of European / Western cuisine? this, mostly Asian? Other?

Are the mammals water this - or near-water-dwelling animals?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:04 pm

...Hippopotamus?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:22 pm

...Hippopotamus? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:53 am

Beaver? Castoreum?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Sundowner » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:11 am

Does the animal belong to the whale family? or sirenia?
As you said, amino acids are not relevant, can we safely assume that the substance does not contain any protein?
Is something that may be classified as oil, fat or lard?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:38 pm

Does the animal belong to the whale family? or sirenia? no to both
As you said, amino acids are not relevant, can we safely assume that the substance does not contain any protein? yes, AFAIK
Is something that may be classified as oil the precursor to the amusing food ingredient is this, mostly, fat or lard?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:57 pm

Is this aquatic/marine mammal a/an - Otter? Beaver? Walrus? Seal? Sea Lion? Water Opossum? Rodent family? Deep Sea mammal? Polar Bear? Other?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:39 pm

Is the ingredient also used in cosmetics? Possibly as a fragrance fixative?

There are also GalFisk's questions above...
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:29 am

GalFisk -- sorry I missed this; dear RedWine pointed out my lapse -- please forgive me... I should run a skydiving puzzle, just for you
Beaver? YES Castoreum? yes, OTRT

danobrazil
Is this aquatic/marine mammal a/an - Otter? Beaver? this; see above... our GalFisk arrived first, but was so quiet I missed him Walrus? Seal? Sea Lion? Water Opossum? Rodent family? Deep Sea mammal? Polar Bear? Other?

RedWine
Is the ingredient also used in cosmetics? not really... we have apparently developed a FA Possibly as a fragrance fixative? same FA; please explore
There are also GalFisk's questions above... thank you for politely pointing it out
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:49 am

I'm confused as to whether the ingredient is in fact Castoreum? or is it OTRT? Does OTRT in this case mean the ingredient is Castoreum using another word(s) like Castor/Oil or "Beaver anal glands"? And maybe you are humbled by the fact that you had to drink it often as a child?
Since Castoreum is used in Vanilla Ice Cream are you humbled by the fact that you lick it off a cone?
If the ingredient isn't Castoreum is it "Beaver Tail"? or something relating to genitalia?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:59 am

I'm confused as to whether the ingredient is in fact Castoreum? the ingredient is not castoreum or is it OTRT? castoreum is OTRT Does OTRT in this case mean the ingredient is Castoreum using another word(s) like Castor/Oil or "Beaver anal glands"? in our puzzle situation, OTRT does not mean this And maybe you are humbled by the fact that you had to drink it often as a child? no
Since Castoreum is used in Vanilla Ice Cream not quite are you humbled by the fact that you lick it off a cone? no
If the ingredient isn't Castoreum is it "Beaver Tail"? or something relating to genitalia? the ingredient is not castoreum, but please explore
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:09 pm

So, tracing the FA...
Are we looking for a synthesised
food-product ingredient,
flavor enhancer
of well-defined chemical composition
that is made from raw material
got from slaughtered beavers.
Is that correct?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:25 pm

Is the ingredient derived from castoreum? Or was it earlier, but it's now fully synthesized? Is it used as a replacement for castoreum? Is castor oil relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:47 am

RedWine
So, tracing the FA... yes, let's
Are we looking for a synthesised yes
food-product ingredient, yes
flavor enhancer OTRT
of well-defined chemical composition yes
that is made from raw material yes
got from slaughtered beavers. Horrid thought, but yes
Is that correct? Yes, with an above indication for exploration -- that part should rapidly fall into place -- I certainly don't mind use of google or wikipedia, at least on this one

GalFisk
Is the ingredient derived from castoreum? it apparently still is, but not principally Or was it earlier, but it's now fully synthesized? nearly entirely Is it used as a replacement for castoreum? no Is castor oil relevant? not here -- if you're interested, although it won't relate to this puzzle, you might look into why "castor oil" has the generic name of beavers as part of it... but please finish this puzzle with me first; I enjoy your "Gatling Gun" visits
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:55 am

Is it principally made from: vegetable matter? Animal matter? Mineral matter? Mineral oil? Chemical feedstock? Does it have a distinct flavor? Odor? Color? Is it crystalline in its pure form? Liquid? Amorphous? Gelatinous? Syrupy?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:43 am

Is it principally made from: vegetable matter? this, AFAIK Animal matter? Mineral matter? Mineral oil? Chemical feedstock? Does it have a distinct flavor? yes Odor? yes Color? Is it crystalline in its pure form? Liquid? Amorphous? Gelatinous? Syrupy? other attributes are not relevant
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:50 am

Flavor: vanilla? Strawberry? Raspberry?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:02 pm

Flavor: vanilla? this is the flavor Strawberry? Raspberry?
Left to discover:
What is the actual ingredient, why does the ingredient make me laugh, and why do I abruptly become humble?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:09 pm

Actual ingredient: actual vanilla? Vanillin? Ethylvanillin? Is it made from eugenol? Guaiacol? Lignin? Are the historical efforts taken in synthesizing vanillin relevant? Is the spice trade of the 14-1600s relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:21 pm

Actual ingredient: actual vanilla? Vanillin? this Ethylvanillin? Is it made from eugenol? Guaiacol? Lignin? likely this; contemporary sources for vanillin are not relevant... Are the historical efforts taken in synthesizing vanillin relevant? ...but these are -- consider what we've explored so far, and here's a Herring [mostly not Red]: I laughed partly because of a FA made by another Is the spice trade of the 14-1600s relevant? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:23 pm

Did the other falsely assume that vanillin was made from vanilla? Concentrating vanillin form vanilla extract relevant? Vanilla extract in itself relevant? Chemical synthesis relevant? One or more people involved in developing the synthesis relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:45 pm

Did the other falsely assume that vanillin was made from vanilla? not this, but OTRT Concentrating vanillin form vanilla extract relevant? Vanilla extract in itself relevant? Chemical synthesis relevant? One or more people involved in developing the synthesis relevant? no to the rest
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:55 pm

Did they falsely assume what it was made from? Did they think it was made from beaver glands? From other animal matter? Plant matter?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:59 pm

Did they falsely assume what it was made from? yes Did they think it was made from beaver glands? OTRT From other animal matter? Plant matter?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby biograd » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:12 pm

So the funny ingredient is vanillin by itself? or only if the vanillin is described in such a way that alludes to its source having been from beavers?

Did someone think that beavers must smell like vanilla because vanilla flavoring could be synthesized from castoreum?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:10 am

yojimbo's going to try color-coding answers and see how it goes...
So the funny ingredient is vanillin by itself? yes, but only in a particular context, which I would like you to discover... or only if the vanillin is let's say "has been" rather than "is" described in such a way that alludes to its source having been from beavers? ... and yes to this, which should help context discovery, noting:
yojimbo wrote: Did they think it was made from beaver glands? OTRT

Did someone think that beavers must smell like vanilla because vanilla flavoring could be synthesized from castoreum? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:43 am

Is vanillin sugar relevant? Is it relevantly confused with vanilla sugar?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:01 am

Beaver as a euphemism relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Sundowner » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:53 am

Does the name of the ingredient (as it was written on the package) contain the word beaver?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:54 am

RedWine
Is vanillin sugar relevant? Is it relevantly confused with vanilla sugar? neither

GalFisk
Beaver as a euphemism relevant? oh, god, no

Sundowner
Does the name of the ingredient (as it was written on the package) contain the word beaver? no, but in my mind it does...
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:59 am

Does the name of the ingredient contain a word that sounds similarly to "beaver"? Does the name of the product contain such word?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:01 am

Does the name of the ingredient contain a word that sounds similarly to "beaver"? vanillin is the ingredient, but beavers are still quite relevant Does the name of the product contain such word? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:48 am

Are other methods of obtaining vanilin relevant? Is 2007 japanese research about extracting vanilin from cow - ahem - excrement relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:37 pm

Are other methods of obtaining vanilin relevant? Is 2007 japanese research about extracting vanilin from cow - ahem - excrement relevant? no to both
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Sundowner » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:51 pm

Castor vanillin?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:54 pm

Castor vanillin? OTRT -- explore FA by another person [not a puzzler, but associated with this puzzle]
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:01 pm

Did the person assume something about: beavers? Vanillin? Vanilla? Taste? Did he think it was made form beaver meat? Droppings? Urine? Some part of the beaver besides the glands?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:14 am

Did the person assume something about: beavers? yes Vanillin? yes Vanilla? no Taste? no Did he think it was made form beaver meat? Droppings? Urine? Some part of the beaver besides the glands? this is OTRT
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:31 am

Did he think it was made from the entire beaver? Beaver babies?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:16 pm

Did he think it was made from the entire beaver? no Beaver babies? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:22 pm

Beaver hair? Skin? Tails? Did he think some part of the beaver tasted like vanilla? Or all of it?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:25 pm

Beaver hair? Skin? Tails? none of these; please continue to explore -- shouldn't take you too long to drill it down Did he think some part of the beaver tasted like vanilla? Or all of it? no to both
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:29 pm

Intestines? Eyes? Brain? Paws? Claws? Teeth? Liver? Another internal organ? Bile? Another bodily fluid?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:34 pm

Intestines? Eyes? Brain? Paws? Claws? Teeth? Liver? none of these Another internal organ? OTRTish Bile? no Another bodily fluid? so he thought
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:58 pm

Bodily fluid: urine? Blood? Sweat? Tears? Spit? Intracranial fluid? Snot? Earwax? Skin oils? Sperm? Lymphatic fluid? Digestive juices? Amniotic fluid? Intraocular fluid? Did I forget some fluid?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:49 pm

Some form of anal fluid?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:55 pm

GalFisk
Bodily fluid: urine? this is closest Blood? Sweat? Tears? Spit? Intracranial fluid? Snot? Earwax? Skin oils? Sperm? again, close Lymphatic fluid? Digestive juices? Amniotic fluid? Intraocular fluid? Did I forget some fluid? perhaps, but irrelevant
You are also entitled to the Churchill Achievement -- or would be, if such existed

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Some form of anal fluid? no, but "close"
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:54 pm

Scent glands?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:24 am

Scent glands? no
Bodily fluid: urine? this is closest -- Sperm? again, close Some form of anal fluid? no, but "close"

time for some little lateral leaps...
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:36 am

As per your previous suggestion I used google/wikipedia

Wikipedia shows Castoreum as: "considered to be a GRAS food additive by the Food and Drug Administration.[10] It is often referenced simply as a "natural flavoring" in products' lists of ingredients. While it is mainly used in foods and beverages as part of a substitute vanilla flavour.

According to Snopes: Getting a beaver to produce castoreum for purposes of food processing is tough. Foodies bent on acquiring some of the sticky stuff have to anesthetize the animal and then "milk" its nether regions.
"You can milk the anal glands so you can extract the fluid," [Joanne] Crawford [a wildlife ecologist at Southern Illinois University] said. "You can squirt [castoreum] out. It's pretty gross."

So is the funny part the fact that although it really/truly is used as a vanilla substitute, it's use is quite nominal and is blown out of proportion compared to vanillin? Is it the fact the one must anesthetize the beaver and then milk anal glands to obtain Castoreum? Is it that Castoreum is called "Natural Flavoring" when on a list of ingredients and we know where it comes from?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:48 am

...
So is the funny part the fact that although it really/truly is used as a vanilla substitute, it's use is quite nominal and is blown out of proportion compared to vanillin? Is it the fact the one must anesthetize the beaver and then milk anal glands to obtain Castoreum? Is it that Castoreum is called "Natural Flavoring" when on a list of ingredients and we know where it comes from? none of these -- clues/hints are embedded in the post which preceded yours
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby BeachDude » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:10 am

Does this have anything to do wih fake Mexican "Vannila" which in fact be quite toxic? Just a wild quess.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:28 pm

Does this have anything to do wih fake Mexican "Vannila" which in fact be quite toxic? Just a wild quess.
no, we've established that the relevant ingredient is vanillin
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:14 pm

Does the person believe beavers excrete vanillin directly?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:18 pm

Does the person [let's call him Jon] believe beavers excrete vanillin directly? no
Jon's FA is along the lines of this previous hint:
Bodily fluid: urine? this is closest -- Sperm? again, close Some form of anal fluid? no, but "close"
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:25 pm

Is his FA about the substance itself? Or its origin in the animal? Or its purpose for the animal? Does he think it comes from the male beaver? Female? Both? Does he think castoreum is vanillin? Or contains it? Does he think the substance in question comes from the sacs in question? From the kidneys? From another organ?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:29 pm

Is his FA about the substance itself? Or its origin in the animal? this Or its purpose for the animal? Does he think it comes from the male beaver? this Female? Both? Does he think castoreum is vanillin? no Or contains it? no Does he think the substance in question comes from the sacs in question? no From the kidneys? no From another organ? yes, for SVV of "organ"
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Sundowner » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:47 am

Did this person misunderstand, misread or misinterpret something?
Was the name of the ingredient written in English? in Latin? abbreviated?
Did the name contain the word "beaver"? "castor"?
Did the person think the substance is stored inside the beaver's body? (as you said earlier the beaver would have to be killed in order to retrieve the substance)
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:28 pm

Did this person misunderstand this, misread or misinterpret and also this, I think something?
Was the name of the ingredient written in English? "vanillin"is rendered as "vanillin" in Latin? abbreviated?
Did the name contain the word "beaver"? "castor"? neither
Did the person think the substance is stored inside the beaver's body? no (as you said earlier the beaver would have to be killed in order to retrieve the substance) apparently, that's no longer the case, per web research cited in the thread by danobrazil, but it's irrelevant...
see the "herring" [my preferred euphemism for "clue"] which I've quoted twice in the thread not far above/below* this post
*depending upon how you view the thread
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Sundowner » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:40 pm

I have no idea .. did he think vanillin itself is derived from beavers? from a beaver's prostate? from testicles?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:34 am

I have no idea [I wouldn't be too sure about that].. did he think vanillin itself is derived from beavers? yes... from a beaver's prostate? from testicles? this
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:44 am

So you laugh because the person though vanillin was from beaver balls? Are you humbled in the face of nature? Evolution? Creation? Chemistry? The human body? The beaver body?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:08 pm

So you laugh because the person though vanillin was from beaver balls? exactly this -- Jon informed me, "Did you know that artificial vanilla is made from Beaver Ball Juice!?" So whenever I see vanillin in a list of ingredients, I always hear his incredulous announcement in my mind... and how can I help but laugh? Are you humbled in the face of nature? OTRT -- explore Evolution? Creation? Chemistry? The human body? The beaver body?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:17 pm

Is your feeling humble related to Jon's misconception? Or rather to the natural way of producing vanillin?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:20 pm

thanks for visiting, RedWine -- my puzzles feel lonely when you're not around
Is your feeling humble related to Jon's misconception? no Or rather to the natural way of producing vanillin? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby RedWine » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:30 pm

Do you feel humble because of beavers slaughtered for vanillin before we learned to synthetize it?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:35 pm

Do you feel humble because of beavers slaughtered for vanillin before we learned to synthetize it? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:40 pm

In the face of nature (ish): is the nature of the beaver relevant? The changes they bring to their environment? Is the origin of vanilla relevant? Is chemical synthesis of vanillin relevant? Other plants relevant? Or animals?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:31 pm

In the face of nature (ish): is the nature of the beaver relevant? The changes they bring to their environment? this Is the origin of vanilla relevant? no, but vanilla's pretty remarkable: orchid fruits... how exotic... Is chemical synthesis of vanillin relevant? no Other plants relevant? Or animals? neither
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:52 pm

Are you awed by beaver dams? Beaver huts? Beaver building work? All of it? Nest-building instincts in other species relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:31 am

Are you awed by beaver dams? Beaver huts? Beaver building work? All of it? this, but my [quite nearly profound] humility goes beyond all that Nest-building instincts in other species relevant? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:56 am

Is your humility because of a beaver action? Or feature? Is it that beavers can do things that mankind still hasn't figured out? Like preventing drought? Prevent floods/erosion? Or holding breath a long time?
Could the thing your humility is based upon be classified as "amazing beaver fact"? Or is it perhaps the culmination of facts or conclusions tied together? Is it that they waste nothing? Have you heard others talk about this subject for humility (or at least respect) towards beavers? Or is it more personal to you?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:04 am

Is your humility because of a beaver action? this Or feature? Is it that beavers can do things that mankind still hasn't figured out? not this Like preventing drought? Prevent floods/erosion? Or holding breath a long time? none of these, despite how amazing they are
Could the thing your humility is based upon be classified as "amazing beaver fact"? yes, as you'll see in the $poiler Or is it perhaps the culmination of facts or conclusions tied together? Is it that they waste nothing? no Have you heard others talk about this subject for humility (or at least respect) towards beavers? yes Or is it more personal to you? I share the humility with many
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:25 am

Amazing fact: strength? Tenacity? Speedy front teeth growth? Some other biological fact? Do beavers hold a relevant world record?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:11 am

Amazing fact: strength? Tenacity? Speedy front teeth growth? Some other biological fact? Do beavers hold a relevant world record? no to all, I'm afraid, with an "ish" on the last one [world record] -- when you drill down to the amazing fact, though, I'm sure you'll experience the delightful tang of my humility
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:29 am

Is the fact that apart form humans, beavers make the greatest changes to their surroundings relevant? Have beavers relevantly changed a relevant area? Have they brought radical changes to an area? Or changes to an enormous area?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:49 am

Is the fact that apart form humans, beavers make the greatest changes to their surroundings relevant? OTRT! Have beavers relevantly changed a relevant area? Have they brought radical changes to an area? Or changes to an enormous area? very much this
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:59 am

Did they make good changes? Bad changes? Relevant? Did they create wetlands? Did they create Florida? Did they make the relevant change in: europe? North America? Asia? South America? Africa? Oceania? Many places? did they prevent something? Prevent erosion? Did their actions relevantly affect another species? Relevantly create another species?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:15 am

Did they make good changes? yes Bad changes? Relevant? yes Did they create wetlands? they did, which is admirable and necessary, but my humility is inspired by more than that Did they create Florida? Don't know about that, but your Q inspires mental beaver dialogue: "Check it out, dude -- what do you think?" -- 'Whoa - amazing - what is it?" -- "Not sure yet, but I'm going to call it Florida..." Did they make the relevant change in: europe? this North America? this Asia? South America? Africa? Oceania? I think these others lack beavers, to their shame Many places? did they prevent something? not this, really Prevent erosion? they do, but that's not quite it Did their actions relevantly affect another species? extremely so, hence my humility Relevantly create another species? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:20 am

Did they affect humans? Did they make areas livable? Did they relevantly affect forests? Wildlife?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby Mimino » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:32 am

I once read a story that beavers helped to abolish border control between Estonia and Latvia. Is this relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:09 am

Is your humility based upon the fact that beavers almost went extinct which would have had devastating effects to human life, but we are very lucky they made a come back, otherwise ... (all the aforementioned comments)?

If not human as the related species then - Fish, another mammal, cold blooded creature, insect, a species that lives in water?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:06 am

GalFisk
Did they affect humans? yes; the rest are not really relevant Did they make areas livable? Did they relevantly affect forests? Wildlife?

Mimino
I once read a story that beavers helped to abolish border control between Estonia and Latvia. I'm not aware of this, but it's fascinating Is this relevant? no

danobrazil
Is your humility based upon the fact that beavers almost went extinct which would have had devastating effects to human life, but we are very lucky they made a come back, otherwise ... (all the aforementioned comments)? not this, but none of us would want to live on a planet that lacked beavers
If not human as the related species then - Fish, another mammal, cold blooded creature, insect, a species that lives in water? n/a
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:36 am

Did they affect human: culture? Evolution? Migration/spread? Disease? Habits? Habitats? Did this primarily happen in prehistoric times? Historic times? Modern times? Is it still happening?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:51 am

Did they affect human: culture? thisish Evolution? not this Migration/spread? perhaps thisish also Disease? Habits? thisish, as well, for svv of "habits" Habitats? Did this primarily happen in prehistoric times? mostly this Historic times? partly also this Modern times? Is it still happening? It could be, I suppose, if we got out of the beaver's way
some hard questions to answer in your post; hope I handled it well and didn't mislead -- I'm not an anthropologist, but am aware that beavers enabled remarkable cultural achievements by humans
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:58 am

Construction relevant? Forestry? Hydropower? Damming done by humans? Other control of waterways? Did the beavers relevantly inspire humans? Help humans?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:14 am

Construction relevant? Forestry? Hydropower? Damming done by humans? Other control of waterways? none of these Did the beavers relevantly inspire humans? Help humans? this, to a great degree -- IMHO, beavers are more essential than cats [per a previous puzzle of mine] as the "most enabling mammal ally"
NB: this puzzle initially invoked "vanillin," known in my circle as "Beaver Ball Juice," but is really about the marvel of what beavers have done to enable our species
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:49 am

Agriculture relevant? Food relevant? Hunting? Gathering?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:53 pm

Agriculture relevant? yes Food relevant? so let's say also this Hunting? no Gathering? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:54 pm

Do they relevantly: clear land? Plant seeds? Teach humans something? Create places where humans can practice agriculture? Irrigation relevant?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Do they relevantly: clear land? Plant seeds? Teach humans something? they surely could, if we paid more attention, but irrelevant Create places where humans can practice agriculture? this Irrigation relevant? no
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:11 pm

Did they create relevant sediments/deposits? Flood plains? Swamps? Peat? Did they create agriculture-friendly ground? Edit: did they relevantly fertilize ground? If so: with droppings? With dead trees?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:01 pm

Is your being humbled because - Mankind would have gone extinct without them? We almost went extinct because of them? You can see the largest beaver dam from space?
Is food highly relevant? Is your observation/fact concerning a group of facts?
If you observed a single normal capable beaver could you still realize this fact but to a much lesser degree?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:19 am

GalFisk
Did they create relevant sediments/deposits? this Flood plains? Swamps? Peat? Did they create agriculture-friendly ground? this Edit: did they relevantly no fertilize ground? If so: with droppings? With dead trees?

danobrazil
Is your being humbled because - Mankind would have gone extinct without them? no, but there would surely be fewer of us without them We almost went extinct because of them? no; not possible You can see the largest beaver dam from space? surely you can't, since one can't even see the GWOC from space [GWOC = LAEFTR]
Is food highly relevant? yes Is your observation/fact concerning a group of facts? no, just one fact
If you observed a single normal capable beaver could you still realize this fact but to a much lesser degree? very doubtful: a beaver dam -- marvelous ecological contribution -- is the work of a family of beavers, and one would have to pay close, ongoing attention to realize the ultimate effect in question to any degree at all
Sorry about all the red, danobrazil; you're asking good questions

***
NB: I could $poil the puzzle, as such is imminent, but I think I might be able to laminate more humility onto the most hubristic -- perhaps the only -- species on the planet if I permit discovery about why I go weak in the knees when beavers come to mind. Hope that's alright with you lads and lasses.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:53 am

Is all, or most, agricultural land in Europe and North America created by beavers?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:04 pm

Re: Beaver Dam from space:

Yojimbo, I'm just throwing questions out which may relate to puzzles, nothing more.

I did however find there are apparently 3 man-made structures one can see from space The Greenhouses of Almería, Palace of the Parliament, Romania and The Kennecott Copper Mine. I didn't think there were any! I guess they don't hold the name recognition or history of the GWOC so that's why they aren't mentioned often. Nonetheless, you got me curious about the subject, thanks.
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:10 pm

Is "weak in the knees" relevant? Something to do with fainting? Knees?
I've heard the Earth's rotation slowed when the 3 Gorges Dam was built. Are you humbled that perhaps beavers have collectively slowed the Earth's rotation?
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Re: [yojimbo] <snicker> [inspired by emeraldink]

Postby yojimbo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:00 pm

danobrazil
Re: Beaver Dam from space:
Yojimbo, I'm just throwing questions out which may relate to puzzles, nothing more.
I did however find there are apparently 3 man-made structures one can see from space The Greenhouses of Almería, Palace of the Parliament, Romania and The Kennecott Copper Mine. I didn't think there were any! I guess they don't hold the name recognition or history of the GWOC so that's why they aren't mentioned often. Nonetheless, you got me curious about the subject, thanks.
I was engaged in a large trenching project a few years ago, which called for interfacing with a "utility locator" service, to determine if there were any electric or phone lines in the area where we'd be digging. The locator asked for GPS coordinates, which I could get from Google Maps, and when I pulled up the site in question, saw a satellite view of a large terraced garden I had installed next door. So yes, there are a few man-made structures one can see from orbit, my own included.


danobrazil
Is "weak in the knees" relevant? no, just a euphemism expressing my physical reaction when so humbled Something to do with fainting? Knees?
I've heard the Earth's rotation slowed when the 3 Gorges Dam was built. Are you humbled that perhaps beavers have collectively slowed the Earth's rotation?

GalFisk
Is all, or most, agricultural land in Europe and North America created by beavers? this!

+++++++SPOILER+++++++

As we all likely know, beavers dam up rivers, streams, and rills, creating marshland. Eventually, the dams are abandoned, or otherwise "fail," leaving huge areas [often untold acres and hectares] of rich sediment behind.
Researchers have cogently posited that virtually all of the fertile lands in North America, and likely elsewhere, were thus the result of beaver activity.
And humans were wearing them as hats! How disgraceful.
I learned of this while watching a recent documentary, Leave it to Beavers [the title is a nod to a classic 60s American television show], which I urge you to seek out.
another fun beaver fact:
British researchers determined, in a classicly-simple experiment, that beavers are stimulated to build dams by the mere sound of moving water:
They placed a boom-box in a meadow playing a recording of a stream, and nearby beavers promptly smothered it with mud and sticks.
The work of beavers likely has more beneficial impact than any other mammal on the planet. Per a recent puzzle, in which I shone a light on our dependence on cats for the onset of beer, I'm astonished at how few of us regard our reliance upon other species. Bees are the most well-known example, but we're surrounded by other demure allies. Please go outside and give them praise.
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