[danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

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[danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:47 pm

Please bear with me as this is my first puzzle post. I know you all are very smart so it won't surprise or bother me if this goes fast. I hope it's worthy of this forum and I hope even more so that I give proper responses to the guesses.

A man backed into a woman and when she fell down she was badly hurt and was bleeding a little bit. The man wanted to help the woman back on her feet but did something first with one hand and a minute later did something else with both hands. He then became nervous and afraid.

What is noteworthy about her fall?
What was the first thing he did after she fell?
Why was he nervous and afraid after doing the second thing?
Last edited by danobrazil on Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:59 pm

Did he back into her: with his body? With a vehicle? with an object? Did she fall on the ground? On something relevant? Is he afraid for himself? Afraid of her? Any other people relevant? Did this happen in a public location? Did he know the woman? Was the woman still on the ground when he did the thing with both ands? One hand? Did the woman do anything relevant? Say anything relevant? Were either of the things he did meant to help her?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:15 pm

Did he back into her: with his body? Yes With a vehicle? No with an object? No Did she fall on the ground? Yes On something relevant? and yes Is he afraid for himself? Yes Afraid of her? Yesish Any other people relevant? No Did this happen in a public location? Yes Did he know the woman? No Was the woman still on the ground when he did the thing with both hands? NO One hand? NO Did the woman do anything relevant? Yes Say anything relevant? No Were either of the things he did meant to help her? DOYD to first thing, no to the second
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:47 pm

Is an animal relevant? Did she fall on something that broke? That injured her more? Did he offer one hand in order to help her? Did he use his one hand with an object? His both hands? Did she have a relevant object? Is he using both his hands in a warding off gesture? Is her mood relevant?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:22 pm

Is an animal relevant? No Did she fall on something that broke? Yes That injured her more? Yes Did he offer one hand in order to help her? No Did he use his one hand with an object? Regarding the question "What was the first thing he did after she fell?" it's more of "on" than "with" so yes, but he did something else with another relevant object proceeding that fall. Did she have a relevant object? No Is he using both his hands in a warding off gesture? No Is her mood relevant? Yesish to Yes, DOYD of mood
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:53 pm

Did this occur inside? Outside?
Does the man get injured at all during this story? Is he in danger of dying? Is she?
Do all instances of "he" refer to the same man? Same for "she" and the woman?
Can we give these characters names? Donald for the man and Lydia for the woman?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:21 pm

Did this occur inside? Yes Outside? No
Does the man get injured at all during this story? No Is he in danger of dying? No Is she? She was in some danger of dying. I won't call it a great danger or likely-hood of dying but danger of dying was possible and she didn't die
Do all instances of "he" refer to the same man? Yes, only 2 people involved in this story Same for "she" and the woman? Yes, see previous answer
Can we give these characters names? Donald for the man and Lydia for the woman? Sure, it's now Donald and Lydia
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:48 am

Did Lydia fall on glass? Ceramics? On something she was carrying? Did this happen in a home? In a store? When Donald does the first thing with one hand, is Lydia sitting? Standing? Relevantly moving? Does Lydia believe Donald pushed her on purpose? By accident? Relevant?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:52 am

Do either Donald or Lydia have relevant professions? Hobbies? Are Donald and Lydia related? Did they know each other?
Was Lydia pregnant when she fell? If so, did Donald know?
Is it relevant which part of Lydia's body was injured by her fall? Is it relevant that there was only little bleeding?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:04 pm

Did Lydia fall on glass? Yes, the relevant part of this object which hurt/cut her is glass Ceramics? No On something she was carrying? No Did this happen in a home? No In a store? YES When Donald does the first thing with one hand, is Lydia sitting? No Standing? Yes Relevantly moving? Yes Does Lydia believe Donald pushed her on purpose? No By accident? Yes Relevant? Yes, otherwise...

Do either Donald or Lydia have relevant professions? YES Hobbies? No Are Donald and Lydia related? No Did they know each other? No
Was Lydia pregnant when she fell? No If so, did Donald know? Irr
Is it relevant which part of Lydia's body was injured by her fall? Yes, local area affected Is it relevant that there was only little bleeding? Yes
Last edited by danobrazil on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:12 pm

Did she injure: foot? Leg? Hip? Bottom? Back? Head? Arm? Chest? Stomach? Did she fall on a product? Shelf? Is Donald first trying to restrain her? Stop her form doing something? Show her his inteiotions? Emotions? Is he worrying about her when he does the first thing wiht one hand?
Edit: does she relevantly misunderstand something? Does he?
Does he work in the store? Does she?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:35 pm

Did she injure: foot? Leg? Hip? Bottom? Back? Head? Arm? Yes, broken wrist, bleeding mildly - No to rest Chest? Stomach? Did she fall on a product? It's not something sold there if that's what you are getting at Shelf? No Is Donald first trying to restrain her? No Stop her form doing something? No Show her his intentions? No Emotions? No Is he worrying about her when he does the first thing with one hand? No, it's more that Donald a responsible attitude regarding his job
Edit: does she relevantly misunderstand something? No Does he? YESSSSSSS, this is key
Does he work in the store? YES Does she? No
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:51 pm

Is Donald trying to show Lydia a product?
Is it relevant what business the store is? Or is it only relevant that Donald works in the store?
Did Lydia slip on a wet floor with no Wet Floor sign? And Donald was supposed to put it up?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:31 pm

Is Donald trying to show Lydia a product? No
Is it relevant what business the store is? Yes, to a degree. Any store sharing certain attributes would fit the criteria for this situation Or is it only relevant that Donald works in the store? No but Donald working there is very relevant
Did Lydia slip on a wet floor with no Wet Floor sign? No otrt And Donald was supposed to put it up? No - see previous
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:32 pm

Was Donald (or the store) liable for Lydia's fall? Did he think she would sue him?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:42 pm

Was Donald (or the store) liable for Lydia's fall? NO Did he think she would sue him? NO, but I've heard of people suing in similar situations, but I don't want to mislead you either
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:48 pm

Did she fall on a display case? Aquarium? Some other thing consisting of glass panes? On glass art? Did Donald understand that he had backed into her? Relevant what he was trying to accomplish when it happened? Was he carrying something relevant? Was she? Did he push her over something relevant? Into something relevant? Did her feet get caught in/on something relevant?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:09 pm

Did she fall on a display case? No Aquarium? No Some other thing consisting of glass panes? Looks like 1 small glass pane but isn't really a pane On glass art? The glass part cannot be interpreted as art, as for the other part I would say no, but DOYD Did Donald understand that he had backed into her? DOYD of her, very much OTRT Relevant what he was trying to accomplish when it happened? Yes Was he carrying something relevant? Yes Was she? No Did he push her over something relevant? Yes - Into, onto/over something Into something relevant? Yes - see previous Did her feet get caught in/on something relevant? No
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:13 pm

Glass "pane": a monitor? An optical device? A protection? A light source? Something electrical? Does he think he backed into an object? Is he carrying something especially: big? Heavy? Cumbersome? Long?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:51 pm

Glass "pane": a monitor? An optical device? A protection? A light source? Something electrical? No to all Does he think he backed into an object? YESSSS, you're getting close Is he carrying something especially: big? Heavy? Cumbersome? Long? No to all
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:54 pm

Did she destroy a product sold in the store by her fall? Did she destroy part of shop's furniture? Did she destroy an item that belonged to her?
If any of the above is correct, did Donald think that he - not Lydia - destroyed the item? Did he care for the item primarily?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:29 pm

Did she destroy a product sold in the store by her fall? No, the product/object she destroyed (more like damaged) is not sold by the store Did she destroy part of shop's furniture? No Did she destroy an item that belonged to her? No
If any of the above is correct, did Donald think that he - not Lydia - destroyed the item? Although the above have been answered no, you can say Donald felt he was responsible for the damage done Did he care for the item primarily? No
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:31 pm

Was Donald afraid he'd be fired? Was Donald the owner of the store? An employee? Relevant?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:11 pm

Was Donald afraid he'd be fired? No Was Donald the owner of the store? No An employee? He could have been, but he's working on a job that's been contracted Relevant? Yes, that he was on a contracted job. Employee would work, but a contracted job is more common
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:13 pm

Is he doing relevant maintenance? Repairs? Construction? Does the item belong to the store? To his employer? To him? Is he a carpenter? Electrician? Heating/venting/air conditioning technician? Relevant shy he is backing up, instead of walking forwards? Is he using a camera at the time? Other optical device?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:26 pm

Is he doing relevant maintenance? Repairs? Construction? No to all Does the item belong to the store? Yes To his employer? No To him? No Is he a carpenter? Electrician? Heating/venting/air conditioning technician? No to all Relevant why he is backing up, instead of walking forwards? YES Is he using a camera at the time? No Other optical device? No
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:35 pm

Is he backing away from something? Is he trying to look at something from a new perspective? Is he relevantly not taking his eyes away form something? Is he trying to back into something? Is he holding an electronic device? Electric device? A light? A weapon?
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Re: She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:45 pm

Is he backing away from something? No, not really Is he trying to look at something from a new perspective? Yes, more like this Is he relevantly not taking his eyes away form something? and like this Is he trying to back into something? No Is he holding an electronic device? Yes Electric device? Yes A light? Yes, that's it A weapon? and he has one of these
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Tiger » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:29 pm

Is he nervous because he committed some sort of faux pas?
Did Donald grab Lydia accidentally out of instinct/knee-jerk reaction?
Is Donald in a relevant relationship?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:27 pm

Is he nervous because he committed some sort of faux pas? No
Did Donald grab Lydia accidentally out of instinct/knee-jerk reaction? FA, Donald never grabbed Lydia
Is Donald in a relevant relationship? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:37 pm

Is Donald a security guard at the store? Was Lydia a thief?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:56 pm

Is Donald a security guard at the store? YESSSS Was Lydia a thief? YESSSS very good!

We still have the same questions left but you are very much OTRT, you all should make quick work of this

What is noteworthy about Lydia's fall?

What did Donald do using one hand after Lydia fell?

What did he do a minute later with both hands?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Tiger » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:52 pm

Does this take place at night?
Did Donald know that Lydia was there? Expect her/someone to be there?
Did she back up into a mirror?

Had Lydia already committed the theft when she fell?
Did her fall reveal that she had stolen something?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:12 am

Does this take place at night? YES
Did Donald know that Lydia was there? Not her specifically her, but at some point yes Expect her/someone to be there? At some point yes
Did she back up into a mirror? No

Had Lydia already committed the theft when she fell? No, she wasn't able to gainfully start any of her thievery
Did her fall reveal that she had stolen something? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Tiger » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:23 am

I'm assuming the store is closed?
So Donald is using his light and walking backwards slowly because he sees someone lurking/suspects that someone is there?
Is Donald also trying to steal something/trespass/something he is not supposed to be doing?

Does he reach for something with his one hand? Maybe a gun or nightstick?
Does Donald injure Lydia further? Or threaten her?

Does Donald's concern have to do with any of the following?
-Lydia's wellbeing
-The security of the store
-His job

Does Lydia break a frame of some sort? A window? A screen?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:48 am

I'm assuming the store is closed? YES
So Donald is using his light and walking backwards slowly because he sees someone lurking/suspects that someone is there? He hears something, and your description is spot on, yes
Is Donald also trying to steal something/trespass/something he is not supposed to be doing? No

Does he reach for something with his one hand? No Maybe a gun or nightstick? No
Does Donald injure Lydia further? No Or threaten her? No

Does Donald's concern have to do with any of the following?
-Lydia's wellbeing NO
-The security of the store Yes
-His job not really or yes. Someone who is concerned with the security of a store is by extension concerned with their job performance and therefore their job, other than that no

Does Lydia break a frame of some sort? A window? A screen? No to all, as mentioned before the glass is part of an object. I'll just say the "glass part" may be something that can be separated from another object. I really don't know for sure if the 2 are permanently joined or not
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:20 am

Does Lydia break something that affects the security of the store? Is the store still closed after Lydia's fall?
Does Lydia, after her fall, still pose a danger to the security of the store? Did Donald threaten her with a weapon? Did he use a weapon for more than threatening?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:20 pm

Does Lydia break something that affects the security of the store? No Is the store still closed after Lydia's fall? Yes, it remains closed during this whole scenario
Does Lydia, after her fall, still pose a danger to the security of the store? No, although I would say she never posed a danger Did Donald threaten her with a weapon? No Did he use a weapon for more than threatening? Donald never used his weapon (a gun)
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:49 pm

Does Donald ever detain or handcuff Lydia?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:13 pm

Does Donald ever detain or handcuff Lydia? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:17 pm

Does Lydia carry anything relevant in her hands when she falls? Does it happen on the stairs? Did she fall through the window? Through the glass door? Was the damaged object valuable? Is the damaged object common in households? Does the store sell cars?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:56 pm

Does Lydia carry anything relevant in her hands when she falls? No Does it happen on the stairs? No Did she fall through the window? No Through the glass door? No Was the damaged object valuable? Not really, I just looked one up on the internet and it's priced at $170-$220 for the type I'm using in the puzzle Is the damaged object common in households? No, relatively rare in households, although I've been in homes with one. Does the store sell cars? No, explore this area of inquiry.

The glass part of this object (or objects, apparently it's 2 pieces you put together) can be made from another material like metals, plastics, wood and particle board covered with Formica. The glass part is a vital component but not the main feature of the product
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:05 pm

Does the store sell antiques? Does it sell something that goes in houses? Is it a home improvement store?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:20 pm

Does the store sell antiques? No Does it sell something that goes in houses? Yes, not restricted to housewares though Is it a home improvement store? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:25 pm

Recap of what we know so far:
Donald is working as an armed security guard in a store after closing time. He hears a noise made by Lydia the thief who is in the store.

While using his flashlight to investigate Donald starts walking backwards a little and bumps into Lydia who falls down into/into an object which is made of two parts. The more featureless part is made of glass and she was slightly cut on that glass and badly hurt (I'll just tell you broken wrist).

Donald thinks she is an object (as opposed to a human) and wants to help get her on her feet. Donald decides he should do one thing first which uses one hand, and then a minute later he does something else using two hands and is suddenly nervous and afraid. Donald never uses his weapon, at least not actively.


Questions that remain:
What is noteworthy about Lydia's fall?
What did Donald do with one hand after the fall?
What did he do with two hands a minute later (perhaps it was more like 30 seconds later)?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:24 am

Relevant exactly what she falls on? What injures she sustains? Does she carry something relevant? Does he say something relevant? Does she? Does he relevantly touch her, apart form pushing her over?
One hand: does he hold the flashlight in this hand? Does he relevantly move the flashlight? Drop it? Turn ot off? On? Does he draw his weapon with the one hand? Do anything else related to the weapon?
Two hands: draw a weapon? Touch anything else relevant?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:03 pm

Relevant exactly what she falls on? Yes, what is the object he thinks that she is? What injures she sustains? Yes, to the extent she had injuries that were not severe/life threatening and something else about the injuries noteworthy to the fall, but not the only noteworthy thing about the fall Does she carry something relevant? No Does he say something relevant? No Does she? No Does he relevantly touch her, apart form pushing her over? NO

One hand: does he hold the flashlight in this hand? Yes, but since we are aware he uses one hand for the flashlight we are relevantly concerned with another object he touches using the other hand Does he relevantly move the flashlight? No, aside from investigating when hear hears a noise Drop it? No,Irr Turn it off? Yes, At some point he turns it off and that is relevant On? Yes, to investigate Does he draw his weapon with the one hand? As mentioned above, he never uses his weapon Do anything else related to the weapon? Noish, maybe he puts his hand on on his holstered gun at one point, maybe not. Nothing else is relevant

Two hands: draw a weapon? See above, he doesn't use his weapon Touch anything else relevant? No, he only uses his hands regarding the task the he does with both hands
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:08 pm

Does he think she's a statue? A mannequin? Does the store sell clothes?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:18 pm

Does he think she's a statue? No A mannequin? YESSSSS Does the store sell clothes? YESSS, beyond that irr

So what is noteworthy about her fall?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:20 pm

Did she fall unnaturally? Silently? Stiffly? Did she not move after the fall? Did Donald recognize she was a person after she fell?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:24 pm

Did she fall on a mannequin? Is he scared because he thinks a mannequin came to life? Or startled because what he thought was a mannequin is moving? Or bleeding? Or breathing? Or making a noise?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:31 pm

Did she fall unnaturally? YES Silently? Stiffly? YES Did she not move after the fall? Correct Did Donald recognize she was a person after she fell? NO

Lydia is posing like a mannequin when Donald bumps her. She falls keeping her pose so as to not gain too much attention.

So there is one other noteworthy thing about Lydia's fall and all the relevant information has been previously guessed.


And we still need to know the 2 actions Donald takes/does
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:37 pm

Does Donald ever, within the puzzle, recognize her as a person? As something not-mannequin? If so: before doing the one-hand thing? Before doing the two-hand thing? After? Does he relevantly see the blood?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:46 pm

Does Donald ever, within the puzzle, recognize her as a person? NO, and therefore no to all sub-questions. Very good question! As something not-mannequin? If so: before doing the one-hand thing? Before doing the two-hand thing? After? No to all of these Does he relevantly see the blood? No, good question
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Did Donald try to restore "the mannequin" back on feet, correct? Did he relevantly touch Lydia? Did he try to lift her with a tool?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:56 pm

Did he try to hide his mistake?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:08 pm

Did Donald try to restore "the mannequin" back on feet, correct? No, he was going to/wanted to but the "he uses one hand to do this" question came first Did he relevantly touch Lydia? No, aside from bumping into her Did he try to lift her with a tool? No

Did he try to hide his mistake? No, his only mistake (more like a minor accident/cleanup ) is bumping into her
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:19 pm

When he uses one hand, is he touching anything relevant with this hand? Or reaching for anything relevant? Holding anything relevant? Touching his own body or clothing? Making a relevant gesture?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:24 pm

When he uses one hand, is he touching anything relevant with this hand? Yes, he touches it after reaching for it Or reaching for anything relevant? See previous answer Holding anything relevant? No Touching his own body or clothing? No, not when he's doing the task which requires one hand Making a relevant gesture? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:28 pm

Does he reach for something he's carrying? Something on the floor? Something nearby? Is he trying to steady himself? Is he reaching for a radio or other communications device? An alarm? A mannequin? Is the thing he's reaching for larger than: him? A washing machine? A microwave oven? A soccer ball? A tennis ball? A ping pong ball? A marble?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:45 pm

Does he reach for something he's carrying? No Something on the floor? No, good question Something nearby? Not at the scene of the fall but not too far away Is he trying to steady himself? No Is he reaching for a radio or other communications device? No An alarm? No A mannequin? No Is the thing he's reaching for larger than: him? No it's small A washing machine? No A microwave oven? No A soccer ball? No A tennis ball? No A ping pong ball? Smaller A marble? About this size
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:51 pm

Is it a button? A light switch? Is it on a wall? On the floor? In the ceiling? On a shelf? On a mannequin?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:24 pm

Is it a button? No A light switch? YES, Donald walked over to turn on a light switch and that is the something he did with one hand Is it on a wall? yes On the floor? no In the ceiling? no On a shelf? no On a mannequin? no
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:52 pm

When lights were turned on, did Donald make a relevant realisation? Did he conclude that "the mannequin" is not broken? Did he try to lift Lydia? Did Lydia do anything relevant when the lights were turned on? Did she still pretend to be a mannequin?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:08 pm

When lights were turned on, did Donald make a relevant realisation? Yes, but not at the exact moment the lights were turned on - OTRT Did he conclude that "the mannequin" is not broken? Yes and No, you'll see why later Did he try to lift Lydia? No Did Lydia do anything relevant when the lights were turned on? Yes, more so when they were off Did she still pretend to be a mannequin? [b]No, not after Donald went to turn on the light/b]

Also from a previous post - Was the woman still on the ground when he did the thing with both hands? NO
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:44 pm

Did Lydia escape while Donald went to turn on the light? Or relevantly move? Hide? Sit up? Stand back up and pretend to be a mannequin again?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Did Lydia escape while Donald went to turn on the light? Yes, or very close to doing so Or relevantly move? Yes Hide? No Sit up? No, she stood up Stand back up and pretend to be a mannequin again? She stood up but did not pretend to be a mannequin again
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:53 pm

Did Lydia stand up and try to run out the door? Did Donald see her trying to escape? Did he catch her?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:02 pm

Did Lydia stand up and try to run out the door? At some point Lydia tried and succeeded escaping through a door Did Donald see her trying to escape? No Did he catch her? No, He never got a chance to engage in catching her
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:04 pm

Did she successfully steal what she had entered the business for?
May we get a recap?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:33 pm

Did she successfully steal what she had entered the business for? No, somewhat irr
May we get a recap? Sure

Recap:
While using his flashlight to investigate a noise Donald starts walking backwards a little and bumps into Lydia who falls down into/onto an object and breaks her wrist and is slightly cut. The object she fell on is made of two parts, she broke her wrist and cut herself on the more featureless part which is made of glass

Donald thinks she is a mannequin and wants to help get her on her feet (to straighten up). Donald decides he should turn on a light switch first and then a minute later (or less) he does something else using both hands and is suddenly nervous and afraid. Donald never uses his weapon, at least not actively.

Questions that remain: (I will rephrase questions now to keep the story moving)
What is noteworthy about Lydia's fall? Part of what is noteworthy we already know - she fell in a stiff armed way so as to not give away her presence.
What is it that Lydia didn't do during the fall that is noteworthy?


What did he do with both hands a minute later which made him nervous and afraid? - Hint The object she falls on is key to this question
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:04 pm

Did she fall onto a display case?
Does the store sell jewelry?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:33 pm

Did she fall onto a display case? No
Does the store sell jewelry? Yes, along with clothing
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:21 am

Is the object on which Lydia fall common at clothing stores? Is it a mannequin? A clothes' hanger? A stillage? A case? Is it a piece of furniture? A decorative object? An electronic device?
Can we determine when Lydia escaped? Was it before the lights were turned on? After turning on the lights, but before Donald did the relevant two-hands activity? After two-hands activity but before Donald feeling afraid?
Did the two-hands activity aim to straighten up "the mannequin"? Stop the thief from escaping? Something else?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:48 am

Is the object on which Lydia fall common at clothing stores? Yes Is it a mannequin? YESSSS, good job A clothes' hanger? No A stillage? No A case? No Is it a piece of furniture? No A decorative object? It's a mannequin so you decide An electronic device? No
Can we determine when Lydia escaped? If you mean at some point is Donald aware Lydia escaped, Yes OTRT Was it before the lights were turned on? No After turning on the lights, but before Donald did the relevant two-hands activity? No After two-hands activity but before Donald feeling afraid? No
Did the two-hands activity aim to straighten up "the mannequin"? No Stop the thief from escaping? No Something else? Yes
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:49 am

The part of the mannequin that is glass is the stand/pedestal or whatever you want to call it.
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:54 am

Actually, GalFisk asked already if she fell on a mannequin - I was just repeating his ideas, so credits for this bit go to GalFisk.

So Lydia escaped after Donald felt relevantly afraid? Is Donald already afraid when he does the two-hand activity? Did Donald see Lydia escaping? Did Donald think that the mannequin come to life?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:02 am

OMG, I feel terrible :((
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:07 am

Oh, please - do not feel terrible! Everyone of us sometimes miss a bunch of questions and it's not a problem. I'm sure GalFisk won't mind that!
I did not write a comment to upset you - I just wanted to pay tribute to GalFisk for his idea.
And the puzzle is really good and gives us much fun - please keep it going!
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:11 am

I'm quite sure this would have been spoiled awhile ago, I clearly did not respond to that guess. I'm new here and only recently understood that when you click submit when someone else has posted it will ask you to post again. I can see that is what happened by the timestamps. I know you weren't trying to upset me, I just feel like #$%#@, Again sorry

So Lydia escaped after Donald felt relevantly afraid? Yes Is Donald already afraid when he does the two-hand activity? No Did Donald see Lydia escaping? No Did Donald think that the mannequin come to life? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:22 am

So let's establish the timing. Please tell if those steps are correct.
1) Donald hears a noise and wants to investigate that?
2) Donald bumps into Lydia who falls on a mannequin, brokes her wrist and bleeds a little. Lydia falls stiffly and silently, pretending that she's a mannequin?
3) Donald wants to straighten the mannequin up and turns on the light?
4) 30-60 seconds pass?
5) Donald does yet not discovered activity using his two hands, but that does not involve using the gun?
6) Donald feels afraid and nervous?
7) Lydia escapes?

Did Donald do anything relevant during those 30-60 seconds after turning the lights on? Did Lydia do do anything relevant during this time?
Did Donald feel afraid and nervous only regarding his job? Did he think Lydia stole something? Did he feel responsible for damaging the mannequin?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:41 am

So let's establish the timing. Please tell if those steps are correct.
1) Donald hears a noise and wants to investigate that?
2) Donald bumps into Lydia who falls on a mannequin, brokes her wrist and bleeds a little. Lydia falls stiffly and silently, pretending that she's a mannequin?
3) Donald wants to straighten the mannequin up and turns on the light?
4) 30-60 seconds pass?
5) Donald does yet not discovered activity using his two hands, but that does not involve using the gun? Donald never uses a gun or weapon, hand on holster perhaps, but not wielding one?
6) Donald feels afraid and nervous?
7) Lydia escapes?
All correct!

Did Donald do anything relevant during those 30-60 seconds after turning the lights on? Yes Did Lydia do do anything relevant during this time? Yes
Did Donald feel afraid and nervous only regarding his job? If you mean because Donald is a security guard and it puts one at risk, then yes Did he think Lydia stole something? Donald didn't know Lydia as Lydia but you can assume he believed so, but it's more than that Did he feel responsible for damaging the mannequin? Yes, but only in the way that responsible people feel when something gets broken or falls apart, nothing more
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:02 am

Did the mannequin fall apart? Did Donald notice a detached arm or something and realize Lydia was not the mannequin?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:05 am

Did the mannequin fall apart? Yes Did Donald notice a detached arm or something and realize Lydia was not the mannequin? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:05 am

Did Donald to the two hand activity: at the light switch? At the broken mannequin? On his way to the mannequin? Somewhere else? Did he do it in response to something he saw? Did he become afraid and nervous in response to something he experienced?Did he relevantly touch the broken mannequin? Did he relevantly see any blood? Or feel it? If so, does he think it's his own blood?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby RedWine » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:37 am

Did Lydia want Donald to feel afraid and nervous? Did she do anything relevant to make him feel so? Did she think it would enable her escape?
After the lights were turned on, did Donald say something? Did Lydia say something? Did she pretend to be someone else? Did she pretend to be dead? Did she pretend to be more injured than she was? Did she demand help? Did she threaten Donald?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:59 pm

Did Donald to the two hand activity: at the light switch? NO - OTRT now At the broken mannequin? YES, that's the track On his way to the mannequin? No Somewhere else? No, at the broken mannequin Did he do it in response to something he saw? YES, explore Did he become afraid and nervous in response to something he experienced? [b]No, but I would say anything one does they also experience, so tiny yesish[/b] Did he relevantly touch the broken mannequin? No Did he relevantly see any blood? NO, good question Or feel it? No If so, does he think it's his own blood? No, good question if he did see blood


Did Lydia want Donald to feel afraid and nervous? No Did she do anything relevant to make him feel so? YES, but this can be leading or misleading Did she think it would enable her escape? YES
After the lights were turned on, did Donald say something? No, no one ever says anything Did Lydia say something? No Did she pretend to be someone else? Only the mannequin, never a person Did she pretend to be dead? No Did she pretend to be more injured than she was? No Did she demand help? No Did she threaten Donald? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:33 pm

Did she go and turn off the light he just turned on? Did she touch/use a relevant object? Did she do anything relevant to the broken mannequin (after breaking it)?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:36 pm

Did she go and turn off the light he just turned on? No Did she touch/use a relevant object? No, aside from finally escaping though a door Did she do anything relevant to the broken mannequin (after breaking it)? No
Hint -The thing which Donald does with two hands other people do with one hand. I think most people have done it both ways (I know I have)
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:36 pm

Does he turn on the light with two hands? Does he deactivate an alarm? Unlock or open a door?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:43 pm

Does he turn on the light with two hands? No Does he deactivate an alarm? No Unlock or open a door? No
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:46 pm

Does Donald notice the "mannequin" (Lydia) blink or breathe?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:52 pm

Does Donald notice the "mannequin" (Lydia) blink or breathe? No, Donald never notices anything unusual about Lydia as she's pretending to be a mannequin
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:25 pm

The relevant thing he saw: was it the broken mannequin? Some detail of it? Something on it? Something near it? Underneath it? Is the way it broke relevant? Is his two-hand action the expression of an emotion? Does he rub his eyes? Cover his mouth? Make a gesture? A cross?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:45 pm

The relevant thing he saw: was it the broken mannequin? Noish,Yesish, DYOD saw Some detail of it? No Something on it? No Something near it? NO,YES, again DYOD saw, but very much OTRT Underneath it? No Is the way it broke relevant? No Is his two-hand action the expression of an emotion? No Does he rub his eyes? No Cover his mouth? No Make a gesture? No A cross? More accurate and OTRT, though without any religious connotation. Technically you could call Donald's action making a crosses but that's a little misleading as he isn't trying to make a cross

All of your "two hand" questions are much closer to what Donald was doing than previous posts
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby GalFisk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:02 pm

Saw: touched? Stepped on? Kicked? Heard? Smelled? Saw the shadow of? The contour of? does he feel nervous and afraid after he "sees"? After his gesture? Is the gesture a warding-off gesture? Protective gesture? Does he see an object? A substance? A footprint? Or other mark? Is something relevantly absent, and he sees its absence?
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Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is she?

Postby danobrazil » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:53 pm

Saw: touched? No Stepped on? No Kicked? No Heard? No Smelled? No Saw the shadow of? Closest guess but no, see below The contour of? No does he feel nervous and afraid after he "sees"? Yes, he sees something and doesn't see something, as per below After his gesture? Gesture not quite the correct word but - see previous Is the gesture a warding-off gesture? No Protective gesture? No Does he see an object? Yes and No see below A substance? No A footprint? No Or other mark? No Is something relevantly absent, and he sees its absence? YESSSS, he sees something relevant and more importantly something is missing/absent
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Spolied - Re: [danobrazil] She's not falling for you, or is

Postby danobrazil » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:35 am

***** SPOILER ****** I think it's about time to spoil as the basic work has been done. Thanks to Galfisk, Redwine, Balin and any others who played!

I learned a lot from the experience and know a little more about what to do and what not to do with a puzzle. I think it was an ok first attempt and things can only get better :)

Pre-puzzle info:
Lydia has found a way to stow away in a clothing/dept store which also sells jewelry. When the store officially closes she intends to steal the jewelry and exit with no worry of setting off an alarm as she asked an accomplice to wait with a car outside at a specific time.

The Puzzle:
While using his flashlight to investigate a noise which Lydia the thief has accidentally made, Donald starts walking backwards a little and bumps into Lydia who is pretending to be a mannequin. Lydia falls down stiff armed into/onto an actual mannequin and breaks her wrist and is slightly cut on the glass-stand part. Lydia didn't make a sound (that's the other noteworthy part). There are 3 other mannequins in the same area which fall down as well.

Donald thinks Lydia is a mannequin and wants to help get her "the mannequin" on her feet (to straighten up). Donald decides he should turn on a light switch first and then walks back to the fallen "mannequins" known as Lydia and the mannequin she cut herself on and the other 3. Donald then tries to remember how many mannequins there were, he counts them from memory using both hands and comes up with 5. He counts the actual mannequins on the floor and only sees 4. Donald is suddenly nervous and afraid because 4 mannequins signifies someone else was pretending to be a mannequin and is in the store!

Aftermath:
Lydia escapes, the alarm sounds, and Donald is relieved to know, or at least believe he is finally alone.

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