[Balin] Voices from above

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[Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:34 pm

If Dan had known it was one, not many, my father would not have corrected him.
Dan = "him" = H/A/M
My father = H/A/M
True story
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Alhucema » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:10 pm

(Is the group of "many" composed of identical items ("ones")?

Are they tangible objects?

Did your Dad correct Dan by telling him "there is no one, there are many"?

Is Dan a blood relative of your Dad?

Did Dan see/hear/touch "them"? Or were they just an abstract concept for him?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:04 am

(Is the group of "many" composed of identical items Yes ("ones") But no(ish) ?

Are they tangible objects? Yes

Did your Dad correct Dan by telling him "there is no one, there are many"? No, and other way around

Is Dan a blood relative of your Dad? No

Did Dan see/hear/touch "them"? I'm sure he did over the course of his life, but not necessarily at this moment Or were they just an abstract concept for him? No
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:33 pm

Is your Dad a teacher and Dan his student?

E Pluribus Unum relevant?

Did Dad tell Dan "There is no many, there are one?"

Was he teaching a language? That differentiates between singular and plural in a distinctive way?

Heaven or religion relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:15 pm

Is your Dad a teacher and Dan his student? No, neither

E Pluribus Unum relevant? No

Did Dad tell Dan "There is no many, there are one?" Not like this, no

Was he teaching a language? No That differentiates between singular and plural in a distinctive way? No

Heaven or religion relevant? No, although this conversation did take place in a church balcony, hence the title. This location is not at all relevant to the puzzle.
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby GalFisk » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:12 am

Words being used in plural form to describe one object relevant? Such as pants? Words ending in s despite being singular relevant? Such as pancreas?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:57 pm

Words being used in plural form to describe one object relevant? Such as pants? Words ending in s despite being singular relevant? Such as pancreas? No to all
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Alhucema » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:38 am

Is Dan a native speaker? Is your Dad?

Was your dad right?

Holy Trinity relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:46 am

Is Dan a native speaker? Yes (and this happened in the US, and the language is English) Is your Dad? Yes

Was your dad right? Yes

Holy Trinity relevant? No, religion is not relevant to the puzzle
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Alhucema » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:50 am

So Dan says something from which it is obvious he thinks that there are many "things", and your dad corrects him there is just one, right?

Does Dan see the "thing" at the moment when he speaks? Is it tangible?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:00 am

So Dan says something from which it is obvious he thinks that there are many "things", and your dad corrects him there is just one, right? Yesish

Does Dan see the "thing" at the moment when he speaks? Assume No Is it tangible? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Alhucema » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:06 am

Is the thing a common one (ie does Dan see it often)?

Is it bigger than a house? A chair?

Is the fact that the thing is only one inherent to it? (as if there is only one existing white elephant in the world)? Or is it just situational (as if:there is only one elephant in the local zoo)?

Is the thing living?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:07 pm

Is the thing a common one (ie does Dan see it often)? Yes

Is it bigger than a house? No A chair? Yes

Is the fact that the thing is only one inherent to it? For the thing that is one, Yes (as if there is only one existing white elephant in the world)? Not this, but this is a little bit OTRT for the things that are many Or is it just situational (as if:there is only one elephant in the local zoo)? No

Is the thing living? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby gregoryuconn » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:56 am

Is Dan you? Your brother? Your uncle? Some other relative of yours (and therefore your dad's)?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:01 am

Is Dan you? Your brother? Your uncle? Some other relative of yours (and therefore your dad's)? No to all, Dan is a family friend
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby gregoryuconn » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:09 am

Hmmm..... Something being common and Dan seeing it often are not necessarily the same thing. If it's some rare bird like the California condor but Dan works in a nature refuge where two of of the remaining 20 living members of the species are kept, he'd see them often but they wouldn't be common. Is it yes to both?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:43 pm

Hmmm..... Something being common and Dan seeing it often are not necessarily the same thing. Right, but Dan seeing/not seeing it is irrelevant.
If it's some rare bird like the California condor but Dan works in a nature refuge where two of of the remaining 20 living members of the species are kept, he'd see them often but they wouldn't be common. Is it yes to both? No, neither
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby RedWine » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:11 pm

Is the thing an animal? A person?
Was Dan referring to a species and your Father to a single, named one? Did Dan have a misconception about the number of them? Did Dan just make a speaking mistake?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:36 pm

Is the thing an animal? A person? This, nicely done
Was Dan referring to a species No, but he was referring to a certain group of people and your Father to a single, named one? Yes Did Dan have a misconception Yes about the number of them? No Did Dan just make a speaking mistake? No
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby GalFisk » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:36 am

Name of the person relevant? If so: first? Last? Is the person alive? Well known?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:42 pm

Name of the person relevant? Of the single person, yes. Of the group of people, no. If so: first? No Last? Yes Is the person alive? No Well known? Yes, but only in one field.
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby GalFisk » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:00 pm

Field: science? Politics? Art? Sport?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:10 pm

Field: science? Politics? Art? Sport? This – one particular sport. (Googlepedia et al are allowed for this puzzle.)
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby GalFisk » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:56 pm

Sport: ball? Motor? Air? Water? Animal(s)? Team? Did Dan think a person was a team?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:49 pm

Sport: ball? Yes Motor? Air? Water? Animal(s)? Team? And Yes, no to rest
Did Dan think a person was a team? No
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby RedWine » Sun May 01, 2016 6:27 pm

Relevant sport: Soccer? Football? Volleyball? Basketball?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 01, 2016 7:48 pm

British use of 'team' relevant? IE, in the US we would say "The Celtics team is looking for a new basketball player" while in the UK they would say "The Celtics team are looking for a new football player."
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Tue May 03, 2016 8:07 am

Baseball relevant? Team names?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue May 03, 2016 2:51 pm

Relevant sport: Soccer? Football? This (American football) Volleyball? Basketball?

British use of 'team' relevant? IE, in the US we would say "The Celtics team is looking for a new basketball player" while in the UK they would say "The Celtics team are looking for a new football player." No, but interesting thought

Baseball relevant? No, but... Team names? ...Yes
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed May 04, 2016 1:25 am

Did he think that because the team name was plural there was more than one team? Or was the team name plural? Are we talking college or professional football? Tulsa Golden Hurricane? And he thought it was Golden Hurricanes?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Wed May 04, 2016 8:51 am

The fact that Buffalo are only named after one Bill relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Wed May 04, 2016 1:23 pm

Did he think that because the team name was plural there was more than one team? No Or was the team name plural? It is Are we talking college or professional football? Professional (NFL)
Tulsa Golden Hurricane? And he thought it was Golden Hurricanes? Not this, no

The fact that Buffalo are only named after one Bill relevant? Right line of thought, but not the Bills. Great guess.
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Sun May 08, 2016 10:56 am

Don't want to turn this into a guessing game but I'll try the Browns?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Sun May 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Don't want to turn this into a guessing game but I'll try the Browns? That's the right team. So what was his misconception?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Westing1992 » Sun May 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Did he mistake Cleveland Brown for a person's name? Is the Family Guy character relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Mon May 09, 2016 8:24 am

I'm aware that there are two theories on the origin of the name, I'd love it to be in honour of the 'Brown Bomber' Joe Louis but It's more likely to have come from the name of their first coach.

I'm making this a google free post but is there a definite answer online? or does your Dad have insight on which is right?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue May 10, 2016 3:26 pm

Did he mistake Cleveland Brown for a person's name? No Is the Family Guy character relevant? No, but I like this line of thought

I'm aware that there are two theories on the origin of the name, I'd love it to be in honour of the 'Brown Bomber' Joe Louis but It's more likely to have come from the name of their first coach. Paul Brown is indeed the "one" person in question.

I'm making this a google free post but is there a definite answer online? or does your Dad have insight on which is right? The Paul Brown theory is correct, and my dad knows this. From the Pro Football Hall of Fame website:

The Cleveland All-America Football Conference franchise conducted a fan contest in 1945 to name the team. The most popular submission was “Browns” in recognition of the team’s first coach and general manager Paul Brown, who was already a popular figure in Ohio sports. Brown at first vetoed the choice and the team selected from the contest entries the name “Panthers.” However, after an area businessman informed the team that he owned the rights to the name Cleveland Panthers, from an earlier failed football team, Brown rescinded his objection and agreed to the use of his name.
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Fri May 13, 2016 7:21 am

So did your friend think that the team was named after a whole clan of Browns? Have we much more to discover?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Fri May 13, 2016 2:31 pm

So did your friend think that the team was named after a whole clan of Browns? Of people named Brown? No. Have we much more to discover? Only what he thought the Browns' namesake was. Bonus points if you can figure out the conversation topic leading to the discovery of his misconception.
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Sat May 14, 2016 12:24 pm

Did he think it had to do with skin colour?
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Re: [Balin] Voices from above

Postby Balin » Sat May 14, 2016 4:59 pm

Did he think it had to do with skin colour? Yes.

****SPOILER****

For those unversed in American football, there's a debate over the Washington Redskins' team name, which detractors consider a racial slur and supporters say is not offensive. "Dan" is a Washington fan and supports their team name, while my dad does not. In a discussion about this topic, the conversation went something like this:

My dad: "There are no other professional teams in sports whose name is a racial slur like that."
Dan: "What about the Cleveland Browns?"
My dad: "Named after Paul Brown?"
Dan: "Oh."

Nice solve Pete. Been a while since I typed this – new puzzle up top.
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Mon May 16, 2016 7:27 am

NIce puzzle Balin

Where do you stand on the Redskins debate? Is it any worse than say the Cleveland Indians ?
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby irishelk » Mon May 16, 2016 11:21 am

Good puzzle, and I never knew they were named after a person! Now are they the only NFL team named after one guy? I think so...

As a Washingtonian, I grew up with the Redskins and have always been a fan. However, not being a Native American, I don't think I can really say if the name is offensive or not. Kind of their call I think, although I wish there would be an unbiased poll of the local tribes instead of just a few screaming protesters.

If they do change it, I would want to be The Warriors.
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby Balin » Tue May 17, 2016 4:38 pm

I don't support the Redskins team name because it is a racial slur, but I do agree that polls about it need to be unbiased. If they do change the name, I would like it to be something that actually honors local natives.

I'm not opposed to Native American team names in general because I don't think the general practice of using people groups as team names is offensive, I've found that when people make the argument that it is, they usually just mean "Native American groups" and ignore, say, the Notre Dame Fighting Irish.

I don't think Cleveland Indians is offensive because I actually know the history of that name, involving a Native American player for the team named Louis Sockalexis, and it was meant as an honor. "Indian" may be un-PC, but it's not usually thought of as a slur, so I don't mind it. "Redskin" is only used as a slur or a football team name, so I think it should be changed.
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby peter365 » Wed May 18, 2016 8:33 am

That's an interesting view Balin and I actually agree with you that Indian is more un-PC than outright racist.

The Edmonton Eskimos will come under pressure if Washington changes their name, as many people view Eskimo as a pejorative term.

I'd definitely be of the view that it's time for a change.
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby irishelk » Wed May 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Interestingly, as with the Indians, the popular story is that the name for the Redskins came about because of a native player, actually the head coach at the time. This can be debated, because the previous name of the team was "the Braves," so the idea was already there. But at the time, Redskin wasn't considered a really pejorative term and was actually used by a conference of native Americans in DC around the same time. You might say that calling someone by a skin color that they don't even have is inherently offensive, but we still people black and white.

It would be analagous to changing the NAACP to the National Association for the Advancement of African-American (or Black) People. Which, for the record, I think is also a pretty good idea.
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby Balin » Thu May 19, 2016 1:50 pm

The Washington Post released a poll today stating that 9 in 10 Native Americans aren't bothered by the name: http://wapo.st/1TpB0xp

The only thing this changes my opinion on is the likelihood of the name being changed. I've said I don't have a problem with Native American team names; my issue is with the word "Redskin."

What's really telling from the poll is the people who responded "there are issues more important than this for us to worry about." That's the point that's resonated with me most.
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Re: [Balin] (*SOLVED*) Voices from above

Postby RealKaptain » Thu May 26, 2016 6:19 am

Balin wrote:The Washington Post released a poll today stating that 9 in 10 Native Americans aren't bothered by the name: http://wapo.st/1TpB0xp

The only thing this changes my opinion on is the likelihood of the name being changed. I've said I don't have a problem with Native American team names; my issue is with the word "Redskin."

What's really telling from the poll is the people who responded "there are issues more important than this for us to worry about." That's the point that's resonated with me most.


I think that the name should be changed. I mean if there are already a lot of people wanting the change because they find it offensive then why not just do it? I also find the polls to be self-defeating. Participants were asked if they had heard about the debate; 56% responded that they had heard "not too much" or "not at all". 78% said the debate was either "not too " or "not at all" important. Based on these results, one can assume that the Washington Post has either carefully selected their participants or that they didn't even consider that the Native Americans who are officially demanding change which includes hundreds of tribal nations, national tribal organizations to be part of the masses. Shouldn't the polls also include the ones who are already offended instead of the ones who neither know or care? Sounds like a puzzle to me.
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